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Upcoming JPAs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fiendly, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Antheus Fiendly Confessor

    @BrentEllison @Oveur

    So what's the point playing a JPA class with upcoming changes on UAT ?

    Was just doing some garrison testing, a Tac with a boltgun can kill you with a single burst. In 1v1, you're getting dbashed? You're dead. You're eating a strong attack? See you next time.

    And it was doing straight 1v1 without initiave for the JPA, now in an actual game, with all the random sources of damage applied, there's no way you can do shit. Very simple example, you're doing a clang and any other class from opposite team was glancing at you? Sorry you're dead too !

    There are really few JP players left in the game at this point anyway, so I guess this class will just be left behind with the next patch. That's just sad as those guys are supposed to be the main disrupters in the game, yet with these new changes there is no way you can do anything in even a 15v15 battle except probably just playing it super safe hoping nobody is glancing at you and spend your whole game trying to backstab people, what is kinda hard once you consider using your JP is revealing you on minimap, not to mention I personally don't want to spend my whole game chasing unaware people to backstab.

    I saw there is an option to add +armor on JPA, but tbh this armor is not much revelant and if you are to take it, you're left with only 2 fuel cells, and any decent JP player will tell you going with 2 fuel is complete useless whatever is your % fuel regen delay.

    To those guys who will mention the JP fisters, if the problem is with the fist, then nerf the fist agaisnt infantry, I'm all for it, the thread is only about the JP being really arsh considering the roles they are supposed to take in game.

    EDIT : As the conversation has been going several points have been made so for a better vision of the post I'm pasting here some more points I made page 14 :

    I don't know why so many people thinks JPAs' place isn't on the frontline it should be one of their main role.

    Where the GA is frontline, he is here to push the line, where the JPA, being frontline too, he is here to disrupt the line, allowing rest of the team, including GAs to push the said line.

    Unless very particular circumstances, you won't see JPAs pushing the line by themselves, nor will you see GAs pushing a line all by themselves, that's why we have several classes, and maybe I'm getting old here, but with the upcoming changes, there is no way for a JPA to effectively disrupt a line as he's tough as the average Imperial Guard.

    So what will the game be? Either a trench war hoping for the opposite team to do a mistake before you can take a point, because no joke, your flying Imperial Guard won't have any impact on the game if all he does is sneaky backstabbing people hoping not to be noticed because at the time he is, he is mostly dead, you'd better do flanks with a GA or a Tac in next patch, to me it already looks to be much more useful. Either a sneaky blob cap fest, very fun to spend the whole game rushing an empty point in force. Either we just throw GAs frontline as cannon fodder hoping they'll tank enough firepower for the rest of the team to show up behind.

    The JPAs were and are a way to avoid this kind of stupid tactics, because they can go in, and allow room for the GAs and rest of the team to go in and start a real mess, and to me, this is this kind of teamwork that is making EC a good game. Removing totally the ability to disrupt the frontline for a JPA will only lead to less versatility regarding the whole meta.

    So maybe they are over-performing in the eyes of many, and even if I disagree with this statement mostly, fair enough each one his opinion and I'm all for balance, yet it is not a nerf bat tossed at the JP classes, it's a nerf kanon, and I think the changes as they are are making no sense in order to keep a nice game.

    EDIT 2 : Comparative videos between current patch and UAT patch, 2 first ones are from current patch as of today, 2 last ones are from UAT patch :

    Courtesy of Armgarion, there is now a short video of these applies changes in UAT :

    If you're curious and want to check our full range of tests, you can watch my point of view - it's pretty long one and it includes much duels :

    In short, what you can get out of this :

    A headshot boltgun burst is leaving you dead.
    A bodyshot burst is leaving you almost dead.
    A single mistake against an aware tactical in 1v1 is leaving you dead.
    A single headshot from bolter stalker is leaving you dead.
    A clang time is enough for a boltgun to take you down.
    A well prepared dbash is leaving you dead.
    A boltgun with a good aiming has enough time to kill you 100% while you do a jump towards him with a comfortable time frame.

    As I said I'm a big JP fan, but as it is, and it's being tested far from for the actual radomness of damage applied in battle aka lost shots, mates covering their mates last moment, friendly fire etc... The JP class won't be an option anymore at least for me, for all the situations I'll want to deal with, a GA or a Tac Boltgun will be better.

    Again keep in mind this is no whine, if devs really want the game to go this way then fair enough, but I for one think these changes, drastic as they are will only lead the game to less versatilty than what is has in the current version because there's litterally nobody that will play JP classes with such a low mistake ceiling.
  2. LucianNostra Well-Known Member

    Gonna need a source on that, it's the most common melee class to see running around, GA's are rare.

    Point of the JPA coming up is to stop frontally attacking the enemy and instead use the JP to find a better way in than launch themselves into melee range with it, skipping the need to charge headlong into a gunline
    Ardean, Kriegson, Twirl and 4 others like this.
  3. Hey there, welcome to the rest of the melee world with the foot sloggers. So nice of you to finally join us in respecting the melee system.
  4. Valentine Iyan Firebrand

    They'll probably still find a way to evade out of it! =p
  5. BaronXIII Arkhona Vanguard

    I'm waiting for people to call my Bolter Tac OP, that way I can point and laugh.
    BlackGoo, Kriegson, Aislinn and 4 others like this.
  6. Antheus Fiendly Confessor

    Tell me the average number of JP playrs you see in a game if you don't mind, tbh it's not rare I'm the only JP player in my team and opposite has only 1 too.

    Of course I'll welcome any official stats from BE though I know it can be tricky to track since you can change your class over the course of a game, still, any estimation of it would be gladly appreciated but tbh, I highly doubt it wouldn't go towards my point.

    And yes, I totally agree with your view on the "fast charges" of the JP, yet with the upcoming patch, all of that is invalid, if you don't trust me, go in UAT garrison with a friend and do yourself some tests. Making what you're describing just impossible, and it's no joke, a dude glancing at you is killing you.

    This is not a whine post, I just really think with the current UAT build and assuming it will be patched live that way, JP will be a non-played class.
  7. JPA are disruptive, they get behind gun emplacement and disrupt enemy formations. They have a great tactical ability they bring to the table.
    BlackGoo, Orkan, Twirl and 5 others like this.
  8. Antheus Fiendly Confessor

    Maybe it's just about me, but JP aren't just here to go behind enemy to backstab them, one of their main role should be to rush the enemy in the face, without forcibly killing them, but doing so, allowing a time-frame for their allies to come in and start the real slaughter. But you can't do so when you're downed in 4 bolt shots.
    Ephaistos likes this.
  9. BaronXIII Arkhona Vanguard

    In a team of 25? I can see 8 JPAs running around pretty often. Though one must remember that people can change their class mid game. You can have a team of 30 Tacticals be 30 JPAs in a split second, if they so pleased. Still, on average, in a 25-30 person game, 8 JPAs. Very often with fists.

    Also let's go over how "underpowered" they are that makes people "not" play them.

    1.) Pistols that do the full damage of the full sized rifle variants, at least at the ranges they SHOULD be engaging from. Can carry every possible pistol type for their faction.
    2.) A gap closing ability that can cover anywhere between 10m-30m.
    3.) An AOE stagger ability.
    4.) Every single melee weapon option
    5.) Comparable armor to a marine, even more comparable if they sacrifice some mobility or attack power.
    6.) Able to carry both frags AND Kraks
    7.) Able to carry Medkits
    8.) Maps where every cap point save for a few are in melee range
    9.) Maps that are littered with cover every 10m, and no matter the map there is ALWAYS a path a melee player can take that can almost fully negate ranged fire
    10.) DEM IFRAMES (depends on the faction)
    11.) etc.

    JPA's, currently, are just fine in their effectiveness. It's going to be hard to find someone who really thinks JPA is currently screwed, except for maybe Thraxus. They're better than the ground assaults for both CSM and Eldar, and arguably better than the LSM and ORK GA's. I can make a Power Fist JPA, with full Fist attachments, a medkit, a Krak, and three jump fuels while still having the same durability of a base marine (which is nothing to laugh at). Let alone if I did my job correctly, my enemy shouldn't have the chance to get more than a few shots off. Imagine if I didn't take a Fist what I could do. So, your remarks on the live version of off.

    As for the UAT version, who knows. We have literally NO idea what they're going to do. They've changed things around a handful of times already. In addition, EVERYONE is having their stuff drastically changed, not just the JPA. You may look at a JPA and go "only a burst kills meh D:", but for all we know that same JPA will be able to one-two shot a Tactical with nothing but a Chainsword. Sharing one's opinions on the direction of the game is fine, but we may want to wait on the pitchforks and torches until we know what's going on for sure.
  10. Stop trying to go toe to toe with a hoard of troops and use your mobility to hit lone wolves and distract defenders. Last night LASH seemed to be rolling nothing but raptors whoring with powerfists and losing rhinos left and right leaving everyone one else high and dry. So I can live with seeing less JPA thank you very much. Though it was funny and sad to see like 5 try to kill the same ork and merely just tripping on each other in the process.
    Tugnut and Slough_Monster like this.

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