Does anyone know of an Archetype Wheel for 40k? Something a long the lines of: Or maybe to the tune of: Maybe none of these fit. Maybe you have a better way of describing the Archetype of each faction? If so, please share! It would be very helpful in future discussions about factions, their play style, their identity.
Good is a strong word. Factions in 40k IMO run from Neutral to Evil without exception with only a limited level of "good" attributed. It's also worth noting closeted psychopaths such as the Marines Malevolent are Space Marines and certainly aren't the good guys, generally speaking even better chapters are pretty much only concerned with killing things, so I'd put Space Marines in general in the neutral category. Well maybe not the Salamanders.
This might be abit simplistic to apply to 40k. I find myself on the brink of a philosophical rant so I'm gonna back away from this thread.
Well let loose. Maybe I should remind everyone that that chart wasn't designed for 40k, but a fan attempted to put 40k into the chart - I'm asking someone to make one that's more representative of the factions. The color wheel is used to define ideas on a spectrum. If that's not how you view the factions of 40k, spit it out! Let's spark the debate!
Well, 40k does actually mimic the original rendition of the Cosmic Balance better than most of the other copycats (D&D, etc). The main supernatural forces are Law and Chaos. Chaos is active while Law is passive, which is why Chaos is usually winning and also usually has the most fun. Where other renditions tend to fail is that they present Law as the "good" side, if not the Good side. Even when they do present Law as the villainous side, it's always something relatively human, like the Imperium. That's not correct - Law is less prone to falling to extremes than Chaos is because it's so frequently getting the snot beaten out of it, but when it does fall into extremes, you get Necrons. So essentially, everything in the 40kverse is on a sliding scale between the C'tan and the Chaos Gods since there isn't any main force to represent neutrality (mainly because neutrality was explicitly the boring alignment).
you are aware that D&D predates WH40K by over a decade right? it even predates WHFB by 9yrs. so calling D&D a copycat is simply wrong, when in fact it was the first commercially availible "true RPG"
Well then, let's put 40k through a cosmic lense. The spectrum is clearly between Law and Chaos. We don't need "Good, Evil, or Neutral", only Order, Disorder, and Destruction since that seems to be what GW uses when it describes alliances across unlikely pairings in Apocalypse settings: i.e. IoM and Tau, Dark Eldar and Chaos, and/or the Necrons and Tyranids. I apologize for my lack of graphics so this chart should be read vertically with the top and bottom being where you'd complete the circle. Feel free to create your own wheel with this inspiration, and please fill in their Values. Disorder - Defined as parasitic towards other races. Cannot exist wholly without them. Tyranids - Their survival depends upon the consumption of all other life in the galaxy. Orks - A large but fragmented empire that fights incessantly among itself. They are drawn to conflict and have no regard or even concept of survival as a species. Values: Dark Eldar - Unrepentant sadists who survive the pull of Slaanesh with the suffering, enslavement, and sacrifice of others. Without offerings to Slaanesh, they would surely be consumed instead. Values: Order - Independent Empires that seek their own survival. Tau - Seeks to exist by the domination of other races. Either you join the greater good, or be purged. Without other races, their military, cultural, and technological capabilities diminish. Values: Imperium of Man (Has it's own spectrum. Notice the layout is still close to Disorder and moves further into "Order" as the list descends) - Seeks to exist at the expense of other races, by either their domination, pacification, or extinction. Space Marines - Without war, there would be no Space Marines. They serve no other purpose than to fight. Imperial Guard / Navy / Civilian Population - Serve as the massive engine that keep the Imperium running. Their purpose is largely to die in order for the Imperium to live, even if they'd prefer not to. Sisters of Battle - Charged with both the preservation of Imperial life, and Imperial faith, they protect both the body and soul of the Imperium. Inquisition - Their only purpose is to ensure the Imperium's survival, regardless of cost. Values: Eldar - Seeks to survive through the extinction of all other races. Values: Destruction - Seeks the annihilation of all other life. Necrons - Awakened to destroy all other life in order to fulfill their ancient purpose: make room for their Empire to reign eternal. Values: Chaos (Undivided) - The nature of Chaos will inevitably lead to the disillusion of real space; the Chaos Gods will rule the universe by making it one realm and one alone: theirs. Heretics: Members of an occult striving for a Grimdark new world order signaled by unpredictable omens and rituals in order to set lose the powers of their dark gods so that they may gain greater status and power. Values: Chaos Space Marines: Rebellious, narcissistic, psychopaths loosely living out the accusations of the Arch-Heretic Horus towards the God-Emperor of Mankind with the aim to utterly destroy the Imperium. Values: Demons: Literal puppets of the Chaos Gods. They are the Warp Incarnate. Values:
You misread me - 40k and D&D are both copycats. Though the notion itself is much, much older, and the specific terms were coined by an earlier author, the notion of Law and Chaos as we know them in RPGs today are all lifted from the Eternal Champion series, with varying degrees of shamelessness. For example, some of the original gods of both sides were listed in a "Melnibonéan" pantheon in the original Deities and Demigods supplement before the author's lawyers got it expunged in subsequent printings. 40k wasn't so bad about it and even referenced the writer as one of the three lesser gods who dictated Chaos Marines wear all those armor spikes. In regards to the main discussion, while one could certainly group the factions as such for practical concerns, it does gloss over the nuances of each faction. Chaos as "Disorder" does certainly represent a sort of predatory existence, but independently, it's the creative faction. Order does not create. It categorizes and imposes and whatever other variations on that theme one might imagine, but it does not create anything wholly new - instead merely creating arrangements of existing components. The ultimate form of Order is in fact absolute oblivion, a singularity across which there is no difference. Certainly, the victory of either the C'tan or the Dark Gods would be identical from the perspective of humanity, but if the goal of the discussion is to ponder the philosophies of the factions, then their intentions matter as much as their actions.
I misordered Chaos and Necrons in the chart, that was my mistake and I have now corrected it. As a definition of pure Chaos is Change, pure unrelenting change will ultimately cause oblivion as well, because it eventually will tear everything apart and constantly unorder things until there is no semblance of order. In essence, Chaos is the exact opposite of Order (Necrons), but will result in essentially the same extreme outcome.
Chaos is not about destruction. Chaos is about change. Even if u destroy something, u create something else instead. Important to know. Ah yes...and Necron lore has been changed. They now want to destroy tyranids and become alive again.
