Lore says space marines have 2 hearts, one is a backup in case the other is pierced. Thats tough. Orks have cannonically had their HEADS CUT OFF, and re-attached within 10 minutes with basically a staplegun and got back up and fought. Chaptermasters never get to have higher toughness, just more wounds. Ork warbosses get to toughness 5, meaning they are all but immune to being killed by anything in one shot. They would basically survive a full charged plasma cannon. Orks have always been tougher than marines. Marines survivability comes from their armor.
How's that related to actual combat tankyness? It's not like they can reattach their heads on their own, when they get beheaded they go down. And it's much more easier to behead the average ork than a space marine. They aren't necrons, they can't just get back up and fight like nothing happened lol. Ork win because of their numbers and resilience (on a macro scale), not because they're bulletproof. SM, CSM and Necrons are all more resistant to damage. The truth is the devs gave the Ork a huge health boost to make up for their slightly bigger head. Which is just plain stupid since a huge health boost is useful 100% of the time while a slightly bigger head is an advantage only in some specific situations that don't even constitute the majority of encounters.
I was with you until this part. Orks are tough in different ways than space marines. Space marines are harder to hurt: they've got improved bone density and armorlike rib cages and their extra organs give all kinds of function. Orks are harder to kill: their nervous system is decentralized and bleeding doesn't threaten their life and their limbs are totally optional. It's like comparing an MMA world champion with Yokozuna (the sumo world champion). You would have an equally hard time fighting either of them, for totally different reasons.
.... you're making fun of my profession ..... seriously ... my ping is 8ms, and 80MBs both ways actual speed it isn't lag i have like 5 people over for LAN partys with no lag, i stream record and upload .... whatever it takes to convince yourself that isn't happening i guess. never mind the clear impact animation .... explain this one then 4 clangs PF vs regular choppa no guard break http://plays.tv/video/57fdb51558301...with-regular-choppa-no-guard-break-?from=user how bout this dbash ? http://plays.tv/video/57f31f419b4e4...ives-direct-fierce-from-power-fist-?from=user and this dbash. http://plays.tv/video/57f2f472210ee...-instantly-backrolls-while-stunned-?from=user this just lag too ? http://plays.tv/video/57edc354255fc...stun-would-still-have-suicide-kill-?from=user heres some more stalker bolter for you. http://plays.tv/video/57e84080da9ff740db/its-still-doing-it-?from=user ide like to point out your excuse "i just move to a different angle" is bs, guns dont just stop working at certain direct line of fire angles for no reason. get off your high horse ... if you know so much about IT and upstream and down stream you would know this game uses nowhere near 80MB up and down cap .... and i do LITERALLY mean 80 MB(i dont get the entire fiber i have another on it who uses very light load like web surfing and email) not Mb ..... there also wasnt a power attack power attacks from the fist come over the top that was a quick that missed me and a quick that landed. the mental gymnastics you guys go through to try and pretend melee is so OP and try to get it removed is ridiculous. ITS a WH40k game theres going to be melee ALL units will have to worry about getting into melee no sitting in a sniper nest with one hand down your pants going home to the bank, no freaking ballistic knife from CoD to negate your lack of skill .... In the grim darkness of the far future people kill each other with everything they can find that does the job .... get used to it.
Orks should have high survivability (for certain types) and high rates of firepower and damage rougly equal to SM, but should have way worse accuracy. Ork melee should be nice and powerful with nice survivability... but slow as hell and expensive as hell. Or conversely, cheap as hell and not that survivable. Still, I'll take a fight against orks over a fight against eldar. More fun. Less high horse. now if we'd just remove melta to REALLY make it a fun fight...
Because Gork and Mork want a propa scrap. They'll only get that from the other chaos gods and thingw in the immaterium. Nothing in the material plane interests them outside the green tide blowing everything up.
Heres an unprepared pug run. The setting :: Advancements :: http://plays.tv/video/5800cb9f1dbb56067e/advancement-level-?from=user Gear :: http://plays.tv/video/5800cbc438ac8e8ea4/loadout-?from=user The highlights :: http://plays.tv/video/5800cc073165b...l-for-me-once-poison-did-its-thing-?from=user http://plays.tv/video/5800cc529fa5f71f07/two-taps-and-down-with-no-armor?from=user http://plays.tv/video/5800ccb85f9cd...de-with-little-small-arms-fire-too-?from=user http://plays.tv/video/5800cd08b370926078/guy-dies-fromt-he-2-hits-snapped-too-early-?from=user http://plays.tv/video/5800cd47501fe2f585/severely-ooutnumbered-as-ranged-unit-charging-?from=user the end result :: http://plays.tv/video/5800cd746fdf1b5477/end-result-?from=user this class is a ranged/Melee/Healer/Tank ...... as a JPA i should have an easier time killing people than an apoth to make up for the healing, and free tankiness built into their gear but a dbash and a quick and a roll away is all it takes, on a melee main front to front it takes 2 clean non dbash hits with the highest tier wepaons ... way more expensive than the narthesium si if im focred into a dbash situation i actually have to hit 3 times at minimum most likely 4 (2 dbashes and the resultant free hits). On a class like apoth that can fight from medium range too .... i spent this ENTIRE match with bolt pistol and narthecium with pen out i NEVER fought at medium range the entire time i even charged into a 1 v 4 to kill that HW guy just to prove a point ranged can down melees just fine with thier melee .... the other 2 kills in the game were like nades and HW fire going off in my vicinity and doing more of the work than i was so i left them out, but lets not forget if you are a tactical there is the very real strategy of frag tagging or "Paying the ultimate price" when engaged in melee and dropping a grenade at your feet, or with HW of using plasma at point blank. I didnt even get into this match if you watch the first kill until there was only 4 minutes left ... now chaos capped one and extended it but imagine if i had been at it the entire time ? Nor do i play Apoth anywhere enough to be a "master" theres far better apoths out there ... all i did was translate my comfort with the melee system over to my ranged character. the narthecium is the default narthecium with the pen mod which is fairly irrelevent im sure i could do even better without the pen mod and more suvive ability. and LSM at present has the shortest TTL. I could repeat this on AS, Warlock, Painboy all day probably with the default loadouts .... i will do a tactical tonight too .... i have a tactical loadout for just this occassion........ i didnt even have the adrenaline vial which most apoths agree when not bugged is far superior for melee on them nor was i a vet with 1400LP i only went down a few times in this match maybe 3 and my beacon got me up one of those times. i facetanked many hits and lost some RPS here and there but it didnt matter since i could roll behind cover in aconfusing dustup and heal to max and give myself 20% damage reduction .... not to mention i can res allies when its over too furthe complicating how rediculious this ranged class is in a melee environment when you compare it to JPA or GA who have no viable way to shoot back at you when you are at range. Now back to point, If you are a HW specialist and you are dying in melee THATS PRETTY MUCH INTENDED ..... you have to have a counter all your weapons win any ranged even engagement vs another non HW ranged class and any melee caught in your crosshairs dies too at long range .... you are this games "Snipers" except you get PC and AG cheese which is far better than if they had a functioning sniper weapon in this game. If you as a devastator are alone on a balcony ... you asked for it .... if having HW in that spot is really important you need a melee guarding you. and you might want to pick aforementioned support classes so they can heal and buff you while they wait for thier victim to come along. If you are a tactical or support class and you are dying in melee so much you need to understand the melee mechanics better ...... you need to follow these simple rules :: Learn the animations of every faction and weapon. Throw RPS second if you have a lower tier faster weapon and trump them AVOID CLANGING LIKE THE PLAGUE unless you have the higher tier weapon then seek it out the weapon break stun is the longest stun in game and disables sprinting and rolling. Remember you have the same or faster TTK than the guy with the 400-600LP tied up in his melee weapon with your stupid free default weapon. If you see rmb spam try to position yourself in the room where they can only come at you from one angle or if they are chasing you they are more likely to go into a straight line aka baiting the quick attack and prep your dbash for them and enjoy your walk to the bank. alternatively you could roll a dark angel because our guild does it without access to RoF and join Templars of Caliban and ill show you which end of the pointy thing is up. or guard you as melee myself like i do for our HW in important positions.
I think there are a few other things that contribute towards why Gork & Mork didn't exterminate an entire race during their birth(s); They have a stronger presence in the warp the more Orks believe in them. There are more Orks around in the current time period than any time previously in 40k. Maybe they have slowly grown into the powerhouses they are today. They represent the duality that is within all Orks; to be brutal but kunnin or kunnin but brutal. It is heavily implied that similarly to all Orks, when they get bored of fighting other daemons in the warp, they fight each other, perhaps since they were "born" at the same time (we can assume) they cancelled each others' material plane effects out, immediately attacking each other at birth. In the latest Ork Codex, Gork and Mork are described as; "divine powerhouses, deities so strong they are never truly defeated. They simply shrug off the attacks of other gods with a raucous laugh". To me implies they might be the strongest of all deities in 40k, but much like the Orks themselves - due to their infighting and the fact that they enjoy the fight itself they will never "win" and nor would they want to. Their aim is not to wipe out the other races (so they don't), their aim (if you can call it that, because it is suggested that they do it ignorantly) is to start the Great Waaagh! an unending and everlasting war. Well if we look at the grimdark 40k setting I think it's fair to say they've already succeeded. There is one thing in the material plane that interests them particularly of course - Ghazzy!
Sorry you feel offended didn't mean to I was hoping you would actually say. Why yes of course I deactivated my Nagle Algorithm because that old coding is obsolete ever since we got out of dial up. 4 clangs vs chopper. You do realize thats the ork Dbash animation right? The stairs bugged you getting stunned most likely. How about this Dbash . I think I already mentioned the dbash stun being bugged and worked on in the first thread. It also looks like you are letting go of your charged attacks early which results in the fierce attack animation at normal damage. And this Dbash. Looks like a Client server sync issue to me, orks don't go into a roll that fast. Your client says You stunned em, server says nah and updates your side with what really happened. Or its the aforementioned Dbash bug that is being worked on. This Just Lag To ? . Yeh bro, pretty certain that is lag. When I get hit like that I die instantly and my ragdoll gets dragged. When I run over others they Die instantly as well... you got pushed for 2 seconds before dying. If not then the death animation is just on a lower priority then the charged attack animation but a higher priority to the landed attack (Sounds stupid but they have made a lot of stupid mistakes). IT would also explain why your hit didn't land because to everyone else your were dead.How does that not look like a sync error to you? Heres some more stalker bolter for you . Yeh looks pretty shitty for sniping. However the bullets are all falling within the reticule spread. You do understand the bullet will go anywhere in the reticule spread not right on the dot, yes? Maybe aim the dot above the head of the target, Seems to work for me on other guns. Really it looks like you are not very familiar playing the Ork race animations and maybe the Eldar as well. The rest really does look like a sync error. You should do some trace routes to the server and check for delayed hops and packet loss. I promise you, you are not supposed to be pushed by vehicles when they hit you dead on, I've seen that once while I was running a busy server in the background for Ark and downloading large files at the same time. Orks also do not go into a roll that fast it was obvious client catch up to server moment. You can google low ping high latency or low ping Packetloss... its not a crazy Idea I made up its something that is quite common. Pack loss for instance does not alter your ping as you are dropping packets which speeds up the latency or keeps it the same. If you Nagle Algorithm is enabled it could explain it on some OS. However this is something that can almost always be remedied sometimes with just a call to your ISP or it could even be noise on your line. I hope your not directing melee overpowered at me? I have never supported that concept. IF melee reachs range they should mutilate them majority of time. Ranged players need to learn to coordinate. Theres a reason Warhammer has rules for fireing on a squad engaged with one of your other squads in melee. Its an intended tactic. Look I am not trying to be a Dick but maybe you need to look into the game mechanics a bit. Your video It takes 3? Is a big indicator. The target is over 100 meters away. Look at your stalker bolters damage read out again. 95 damage within 25 meters 24 damage at 130 meters. The Capture point he is near is at 144 meters you start losing damage outside 25 meters so no 3 hit kill which would still not kill a CSM or LSM without at least 1 head shot do to stalker bolters 80 penetration and a LSM/CSM base 100 toughness and 200 health 100 armor. Keep in mind the stalker bolter is not a sniper rifle, it is a modified Bolter with higher close range impact,accuracy and silenced shots Unfortunately we do not have the astartes sniper rifle in game yet http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sniper_Rifle
heres the tactical play session i promised ... i couldnt get as cohesive a game where CQC was near as important as the play during this time of day was very HW spammy on all sides .... Once again my rules NO BOLTER SHOTS only CQC weapons so my pistol and knife. Advancements :: http://plays.tv/video/580131749bff969b10/advancements?from=user Loadout :: http://plays.tv/video/58013142620e02ace7/loadout?from=user Alright FIRST fight in the gear lolz .... http://plays.tv/video/580131a665266b3127/first-fight-in-the-loadout-?from=user on tactical use your backstab. http://plays.tv/video/580131ebe0a904f32b/get-that-backstab-modifier-?from=user http://plays.tv/video/5801353fdb3cc1d613/backstab-2?from=user Use your pistol. http://plays.tv/video/58013285d0d5c3b503/use-your-pistol-part-1?from=user Vastly out numbered but i stopped the uncap and would have had the JPA if i didnt get backstabbed(he was starting dbash i was completing fierce). http://plays.tv/video/58013334ba94467d9f/probably-had-this-jpa-if-i-didnt-get-backstabbed-?from=user heres a perfect example of whats wrong with melee which screws melee centric classes more ... but i still won. http://plays.tv/video/580132d3a54ee76939/example-whats-wrong-with-melee-still-win-?from=user Here i actually get surprised and this jpa should have had me but i successfully stall and range/zone him. http://plays.tv/video/580133ed0240f2b140/jpa-jumps-me-and-should-have-had-me-?from=user heres honestly why you are probably dying ...... all the wolf preists are still adrenalining themselves at full health instead of healing people ..... http://plays.tv/video/580134271220506626/wolf-preists-?from=user heres a shot or two of the "poor defensless ranged wepaons at work. http://plays.tv/video/5801336f8cab6252a4/underpowered-ranged-weapon-in-action-?from=user http://plays.tv/video/580134ccd04d817ff6/super-fair-to-melee?from=user al these games i was able to finish middle of the field fightin ONLY with bolt pistol and knife ... if i had been engaging targets from midrange i would imagine you would see an increase in my kills as they would have been softer when they got to me or died outright at range, and most likely out of dodges and i could have actually used real kiting in close range as well .... i was literally charging enemy infantry on LSM tactical ....the present weakest melee class outside HW specialists in the game as he has no possible combination to allow a frontal one shot, the lowest clang stats and no DoT available, every enemy against me for chaos and ork could easily beat my TTL in toughness or HP if they wanted to and allmost all enemy melee specialists had a higher tier or better damaging/penetration weapon.
