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Shieldbro does not properly represent Blood Angels and Space Wolf GA

Discussion in 'Space Marines' started by Njord-Halfhand, Jun 29, 2016.

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[EDA] Reiborn Reiborn Arkhona Vanguard

I want to see two handed swords.

Reiborn, Jul 20, 2016

#51
BigDogg BigDogg Arkhona Vanguard

Njord-Halfhand said:

tl;dr
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First of all I was just providing some context to a statement you'd made, I wasn't trying to shoot you down or anything.

Secondly, even the legendary image of the berserker has them equipped with shields (by far one of the most popular images of the berserker is of a man biting the rim of his shield). Wulfen even have access to shields in the TT.

Finally, the berserker is only really tangentially related to the Space Wolves in the form of the Curse of the Wulfen (and/or Black Rage), regular Space Wolves (and/or Blood Angels) have been universally depicted as fierce but wily and fully intelligent fighters, the World Eaters are the only warriors in the setting who go truly berserk of their own volition.
In Russ' own words

‘If you cannot see the chasm between savagery and ferocity, then you are hopelessly gone, Angron.’
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BigDogg, Jul 20, 2016

#52
Hairgoy Subordinate

Reiborn said: ↑

I want to see two handed swords.
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*SM: Yehs*

*Everyone else: noe pls*

Wulfburk, castellan_crowe066 and Reiborn like this.

Hairgoy, Jul 20, 2016

#53
Psychopski Njord-Halfhand Prefectus

BigDogg said: ↑

First of all I was just providing some context to a statement you'd made, I wasn't trying to shoot you down or anything.

Secondly, even the legendary image of the berserker has them equipped with shields (by far one of the most popular images of the berserker is of a man biting the rim of his shield). Wulfen even have access to shields in the TT.

Finally, the berserker is only really tangentially related to the Space Wolves in the form of the Curse of the Wulfen (and/or Black Rage), regular Space Wolves (and/or Blood Angels) have been universally depicted as fierce but wily and fully intelligent fighters, the World Eaters are the only warriors in the setting who go truly berserk of their own volition.
In Russ' own words
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Kharn and that kill counter.... legendary.

Some of us were joking on voice comms the other day about what the Mark of Khorne will do to our character. I jokingly said that the Mark of Khorn would go something like, at the beginning of the match our screen blacks out as our character goes into a blind fit of rage and at the end of the match we get our vision back and just see our character standing there(blood soaked of course and battle scarred) and all we have is the "Kharn kill counter" giving us our tally.

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Njord-Halfhand, Jul 21, 2016

#54
Crowe castellan_crowe066 Steam Early Access

Njord-Halfhand said: ↑

Kharn and that kill counter.... legendary.

Some of us were joking on voice comms the other day about what the Mark of Khorne will do to our character. I jokingly said that the Mark of Khorn would go something like, at the beginning of the match our screen blacks out as our character goes into a blind fit of rage and at the end of the match we get our vision back and just see our character standing there(blood soaked of course and battle scarred) and all we have is the "Kharn kill counter" giving us our tally.
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^

too funny! My guild was also chatting about what the possible marks could do and something similar was mentioned! Toss in the lots of sounds effects like the roar of swinging chain axes/swords, crys of agonizing pain and the random yelling of BLODD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! That would make for one entertaining round

Njord-Halfhand likes this.

castellan_crowe066, Jul 22, 2016

#55
Psychopski Njord-Halfhand Prefectus

Concept for Khorne Berzerker while in combat, look no further than Borderland 2 and Krieg.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGuPfECijc

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Njord-Halfhand, Jul 22, 2016

#56
Crowe castellan_crowe066 Steam Early Access

Njord-Halfhand said: ↑

Concept for Khorne Berzerker while in combat, look no further than Borderland 2 and Krieg.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGuPfECijc
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lol! that's perfect! If they could incorporate the throwing gun bit that would be awesome!

castellan_crowe066, Jul 27, 2016

#57
Nero the Flayed Angel FleshAlgorythm Master

So slap an Iron Halo on, grab a pistol and go ham kid.

FleshAlgorythm, Jul 27, 2016

#58
Asheru Swiftwind Asheru Moderator

Njord-Halfhand said: ↑

BERSERKER:

1. violently or destructively frenzied; wild; crazed;deranged:

2.(sometimes initial capital letter) ScandinavianLegend.. Also, berserker. an ancient Norsewarrior who fought with frenzied rage in battle.

According to ancient legend, the berserkers were indestructible, and no weapon could break them from their trance. They were described as being immune to fire and to the strike of a sword, continuing on their rampage despite injury.

To "go berserk" was to "hamask", which translates as "change form", in this case, as with the sense "enter a state of wild fury". One who could transform as a berserker was typically thought of as "hamrammr" or "shapestrong".[3]:126 For example, the band of men that go with Skallagrim in Egil's Saga to see King Harald about his brother Thorolf's murder are described as "the hardest of men, with a touch of the uncanny about a number of them...they [were] built and shaped more like trolls than human beings". This is generally interpreted as the band of men being "hamrammr".[8]

The Shieldbro GA requires a defensive mindset and defensive play style in order to make the most of the build. While you can indeed play the 'Bro aggressively, if you're not using the shield regularly, you're not going to be as effective, and you're going to die a lot. Utilizing the shield regularly in order to excel on your 'Bro slows you down constantly, and sometimes stops you in your tracks.

While I feel the 'Bro build is a good fit for the methodical Ultramarines, and without any doubt fits the Imperial Fists, the play style required to excel on the 'Bro is not at all a good fit for the Wolves or the Sons of Sanguinius. The Dark Angels are more known for 7-8 foot long 2 handed greatswords so I'm not sure which category the Dark Angels should fall, perhaps the Bro shall suffice for the Sons of the Lion until 2 handed weapons are implemented.

The Wolves and Blood Angels on the whole are for the most part extremely aggressive, often close with the enemy with reckless abandon, never pausing to give their enemies respite. With the Wolves being constantly urged on by the curse of their inner Wulfen and the Blood Angels always teetering on the edge of the Black Rage, a more aggressive "Berserker" Ground Assault build free from the constraints of the shield, much more similar to the MoN, would be a much better fit for these two subfactions. The BA's spin off Chapter the Flesh Tearers didn't earn their Chapter name by hiding behind Storm Shields.

I've played the MoN GA(the good MoN GA, patch 17) and Bro almost exclusively the entirety of Alpha. The MoN GA requires a very offensive mindset and a very aggressive play style. You must close with the enemy without delay, hurling yourself into the fray with reckless abandon, constantly pressing your attack from opponent to opponent, never offering your enemies a respite. This play style perfectly captures the essence of the Berserker, the essence of the Blood Angels and Wolves of lore.

BHVR has stated that there will be distinct differences between subfactions. What better opportunity to put that concept into production by implementing a very durable, highly mobile, non shield toting "Berserker" Ground Assault build for the Wolves and the Blood Angels.
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Njord you know I love you but I am going to call BS on this. Go play in a 40k tourney and get back to me on how many lone wolves you see running around with a storm sheild, how many thunderwolfs you see running around with stormshield and how many terminators you see running around with em and get back to me on that. 2 handed weapons will not be in at launch that's been known for a while now. We will just have to wait and see.

Asheru, Jul 28, 2016

#59
Galen Galen Arkhona Vanguard

Asheru said: ↑

Njord you know I love you but I am going to call BS on this. Go play in a 40k tourney and get back to me on how many lone wolves you see running around with a storm sheild, how many thunderwolfs you see running around with stormshield and how many terminators you see running around with em and get back to me on that. 2 handed weapons will not be in at launch that's been known for a while now. We will just have to wait and see.
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TT and how "power-gamers" play it has little to do with how these chapters work in the lore though!For example blood claws are effing terrible in the TT that doesnt mean they are terrible in the lore.

Njord-Halfhand likes this.

Galen, Jul 28, 2016

#60

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