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Repost: Why does the Legion of the Damned

Discussion in 'Space Marines' started by The-Forge-Dragon, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Anvil The-Forge-Dragon Arkhona Vanguard

    Okay, so this is an approved repost basically copied and pasted from my old thread. I hope that this might be a place for people to discuss what THEY think is visually wrong with the legionnaire and, should anyone have the tools the talent and time, how they intend to fix it.

    So people have some issues with the elites, nothing new there. There are some people that feel they aren't visually up to snuff. This primarily seems to be an issue with the possessed and the legionnaire since so far people are pretty satisfied with the Ork Kommando as far as looks go.

    So why does the Legionnaire feel off? Well I'll try my best to sum it up. So let's start off by looking at the concept art.


    This is Bob, the legionnaire.

    And this is Jimmy, the legionnaire we got.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    So let's start from the top and work our way down.

    First is the skulls on the backpack vents. In the concept art these skulls are small, covering the exhaust balls tightly, the roundness of a skull surrounding the vent with upper jaw stopping just short of the vents. We also see that a vent balls are somewhat smaller in the concept art and also angled to have the lip of the vent against the teeth.

    Next we have the helmet. In the artwork we see that the upper layer (above the eyes) comes down to the center of the forehead. That is not so with the in-game model. His expression is much harsher, something I would attribute to the mouth grill. In both the concept art and in other more base astartes helmets the mouth grill is wide. Case in point.
    If we look back to the in-game Legionnaire we see his mouth grill is oddly thin, and that it stops far below where the art's does. It even possesses the spot for a nose which in astartes helmet is more of an implied facial feature via the upper end of the grill. I believe this stems from a possible misinterpretation of the concept art. Though I cannot tell for certain, the concept art looks like it features an astartes helmet with an overly large mouth grill, and a rounded brow that pushes against the edge of the grill to form a scowl. The bony appearance is achieved by the structure of the helmet combined with a section of the helmet having been painted bone white rather than via a physically elevated plate that we see in-game. Add onto that the lack of coloration behind the grill like in the art and eyes that are more red than orange (I admit this might be my eyes playing tricks on me. They may be orange, but their color is so flat that they appear red). The eyes also lack a flame effect that could perhaps be borrowed from chaos. The veterans of Khorne on helmets whose eye tint changes along with the mark are prime examples of what we hoped to see based on the art.

    Moving on we come to the collar. I'll admit that some leeway might be warranted here. In the artist's rendition the chest-piece seems to surround the helmet, something that we don't see in 40k outside of the Mk. 8 gorget. Due to this I cannot in good conscience make a full point on this part of the comparison.

    What I can make a point of is the rib cage on the breastplate. In the art there are smaller sections that extend from the sternum of the rib cage, then continue out as solid elongated pieces of bone. The bones are round, smooth, and the smaller sections are roughly equal in length. Any bends generally occur on the longer sections as they extend towards the pauldrons. In-game is not quite the same. The smaller segments grow longer as they go down the sternum, the bends occur at the connections between the small sections and the rest of the bones where they are angled sharply.

    The pauldrons are the next on the list. The right pauldron (from the model and the art's perspective, which would be our left) is a decent approximation of the artwork. The main issue I've found is that there is too much open space. The wings in the art are much more angular, boxy even. Of course he also lacks the trailing purity seals seen in the art. The raised section at the top of the pauldron seems engraved rather than the patterned one we see in-game. The left (right-side) pauldron deviates from the art in that it has no raised section like the art. Beyond that is difficult to compare, but I still have something to state in why the left pauldron feels off. The painted flame effect has little base, the thin flames spaced too far apart. This does not mean the issue could be fixed by bringing them closer together as they are simply too slender to make effective use of the space on the pauldron. As a last note the blank ribbon works much less on this side than it does on the other one, likely because it attempts to make use of the empty space but is too small to do so and instead becomes an awkward addition.

    The bolter needs very little attention. It is missing a custom model. Next.

    The arms are another point where the in-game model falls short. It lacks the bones present in the concept art. Other than that there is little more to mention aside from a few joints across the entire model that could use the flame effects loop we see placed at the shoulders.

    The skulls are another point at which divergence from the art has possibly impacted the visual aesthetic of the model. Rather than using chains to connect the skulls they use thin leather straps through the eye sockets. While this might seem minor I feel it effects the perception of the model alongside the loincloth and the strips around the model's right leg. The loincloth is to clean, too neat. Too human. It lacks a somewhat ghostly feels that the long, triangular tatters of the artwork possess. Leather is a primitive human way of binding while chains are representative of a colder, harder nature that we should see in a ghost of holy vengeance such as the Legionnaire. The strips that wrap about his thigh bear odd symbols, something that would work on the possessed perhaps, but not on the Damned. The legion avoids the use of written symbols, save for words relating to death and their motto that reaffirms their ties to the imperium. Strips like the ones we see that may or may not be made of leather (the type of leather is even questionable as it is oddly reminiscent of human skin) and the blue lettering which contrasts with the Legionnaire's color scheme further detract from the model's appeal. While they do bear purity seals in many images such seals are oftentimes blank. While the concept art bears writing it is so minuscule that it fails to form the connection between patterns and written language, something I will concede might have just been impossible to accomplish. That said I'm not certain leaving the strips as we have them blank would have been that much better.

    If we remain in the thigh area we also see a couple more divergences from the art and this is where I actually support one of the changes. The left (right-side) leg bears a band. Underneath that band we see the thigh plating has only been half colored. Part black, part ceramite grey I feel this would have translated very very poorly into the game and I support the decision to keep the whole plate black. On the right we see a flame graphic painted onto the armor of the concept art. Oddly, this is the first confirmable (can't say for certain about that shoulder) painted flame we see on the Legionnaire. It bears a thick base with short flames, these eventually giving way to longer flames and making it seem like fire rages upon fire. Their varying lengths and non-repeating design help give these flames a sense of aesthetic pleasure that are lacking from the in-game flames.

    Now the knees and another point of misinterpretation I believe. Both in-game and in concept the legionnaire appears to be wearing Mk. 6 Corvus armor. Now the in-game model appears to have an extra piece on the right leg sealing the joint. This piece is thick, bears the bonding studs from the artwork, and goes all around the knee. If we look back to the artwork we see something similar, and when faced at the angle given by the art it probably looks like this piece is large and flared, going around the knee. However if we look to the other leg we see that it is actual more of a slightly angled extension of the knee's edge. It stops halfway around the knee and possibly has edges that extend outward while the center extends upwards. For a good example of what it might look like in-game take a look at the above chaos marine's knees.

    Moving on we find ourselves at the greaves. Now the greaves consist of two major visual components. The skeletal decorations and the flames. If we compare the right leg of the two legionnaires we can notice two things. The first is that the model in-game lacks arms, being nothing more than a torso and a skull. Second is that the greave lacks any flames to consume the skeleton. I believe these are major detractors, especially given how small the torso decoration is in-game. It may have been a more prudent choice to stop the decoration at the spine, slightly past the end of the rib cage. We also see that the bones are covered by the flames at the base of the greaves. This evokes a sensation of consumption that befits a character going by the title Damned Legionnaire. Admittedly this is a tough one to resolve. Perhaps it's because my knowledge of texturing is limited but in this case perhaps merely painting the skeleton on as part of the texture and having it being consumed by the flames would have been better. The jury is out on whether or not the skull could still be a 3d decoration over it or whether it should just be painted on like the torso and arms.

    Now for the other greave. If we look at the model we have we see that this leg bears flames but nothing else, whereas the art depicts a skeletal angel with a halo. Much like the pauldrons it feels like there is too much empty space without this angel, and while it suffers from the lack of branching flames as well as a lack of base this one feels like it would be less egregious if it avoided two things. The first would be having flames all around the leg rather than just the front and the second would be having the flames be red and then turn yellow. The overarching theme of textured flames should be represented with orange, not red as we see in-game. On to the topic of the skeletal angel this is a moment where the feathers would likely have been painted on while the arms, torse, and skull would be elevated and surrounded by flame rather than being burnt by them.

    And lastly we have the boots. Now this may seem like a minor grievance, but the boots are one of the hardest points that limit my enjoyment of the model. They are blank. This isn't to say that there aren't legionnaires that have unadorned boots, but one of the things legionnaires sometimes do that set them apart from most if not all other space marine fighting forces is that they add toe bones to their boots. Some only on one, other on both. Some not at all, but it is something unique to them that is nowhere to be found in-game and thus a missed opportunity.

    This was much longer than I expected it to be, so I'll summarize.

    TL;DR The Legionnaires odd bone plate mask, dead space on his pauldrons and greaves, lack of chains and tattered rags, improperly used skulls on backpack vents, poorly implemented rib-cage, lack of unique bolter, misinterpretation of knee flares, choice of red and yellow over orange for flame textures, and lack of toe bones lead to the in-game model being underwhelming.

    I don't expect these to get addressed soon if ever. There are clearly more important things that need to be done, but if nothing else these are my observations on why the in-game legionnaire just feels off, especially compared to the artwork it is based off of.
    LOBOTRONUS likes this.
  2. I will be watching this thread please keep it on topic.

    But seriously, you're totally right on some of the points I skimmed over. hopefully with the new workshop coming out we can make a proper skin, we cant replace in-game models ive heard, but we can propably make our own assets that just look INCREDIBLY like an actual legion of the damned to be implemented as a pay-for skin. that now that i think of it would propably end up cheaper then the ACTUAL LOTD at 25 real bucks.
  4. PurpleHaze PrplHze Steam Early Access

    I could live with our Wrinkled Paper version, if the damn bolter was'nt a BASIC WALMART bolter skin. That is the biggest turn-off for me. So much so, i hate that he's taken top of my Load-out list and always shows up first.

    "I wish, that i had not bought the LotD" and thats Words for the Birds.

    Please Devs, I rather sell him back to you at half the rtc, i dont want it anymore. you can have it. *Leaves LoTD on doorstep*
  5. It looks off because most of the models are oufsourced from chinese companies

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