I suffered a game where this happened. It is almost like if a multi-melta even touches you you die. You can;t even use raptors or JPAs against it. It kills you with less than 0.5s of exposure at least on my side. You hear the noise, then you drop dead AND bleed out. (Lag amplifies its effectiveness) . It is almost an insta kill gun. It absolutely needs a rev-up time. Plus, I too have never run out of ammo for this weapon. Right now, it trumps the HB as an anti-infantry weapon. And, I could rant for days, why isn't the heavy bolter good at medium - medium long range!? (+100m)
I would not call a fast storm bolter insta-kill, just faster, but at the expense of running out of ammo. Right now the storm bolter and melta gun are quite useless. What can be done to encourage their play? Make them more powerful. But that power should come at an expense, less shots. I also believe that players should not die as fast, unless in melee. Melee should be quick. A havoc should not be shot to death while getting up from a crouch or turning around to find cover.
No, I think he meant that part where you suggest them to make Storm Bolter into a murder machine that it was when it first released(or even more OP than that). And running out of ammo is why people in real life might resort to melee. But in 40k, people use melee because it's cool.
The storm bolter costs more and has a much higher spread, when accuracy penalties come in it will be even more significant. The SB should be slightly more powerful than the standard bolter, the higher spread and worse accuracy on med to long ranges will balance that ot. The MM is just a plain pain in the arse.
I think the MM needs to remain effective against infantry to remain viable, regardless of how it is in the tabletop. But, it doesn't need to be the best anti-infantry weapon for close range. Plus it's clear there's the potential for exploits. So here are my thoughts as a MM player as to ways the weapon could be nerfed to address the issues specifically while keeping the weapon viable. I've ordered it from what I believe to be least to most feasible. Increased unwieldy-ness: I'm not sure what form exactly this could take. My concern against further slowing turning speed would be that it might make tracking moving vehicles harder than it should be. But it would be one option here. SMALL spin-up time: By making it harder to react to enemies, you obviously make the gun less viable against them. I want to stress that this needs to be very short though. Basically enough that I can't react instantly to a close-range threat, but short enough that I can still respond very quickly. Decreased mobility: I think stopping the MM entirely when it fires could be problematic. The movement can be really important when taking on vehicles, which is the weapon's biggest role. But slowing the user down a little while firing would probably be fine. Decreased ammo: This feels kind of token, but it's worth mentioning. The ammo could easily be reduced as low as 400 while remaining viable. Increase DoT dropoff against infantry: I don't know if this is actually possible, but it could help some specific complaints here. Basically make it so the heat meter empties faster against infantry specfically(right now it's an important part of taking down vehicles). Focus the beam: Reduce the width of the beam so that the weapon requires more accuracy and can't just be sprayed. Combined with the unwieldy nature of the gun already, I can see this going a long way. And given the size of vehicles, it doesn't hinder the weapon's main role. Points cost: With wargear expected within the week, I think this is going to be the most viable. Rather than nerfing the melta gun, increase the opportunity cost that comes from taking it. Let this weapon be the true glass cannon build. I don't know exactly what we'll get for wargear or what they'll cost. But make it so that I have to trade something like increased health in order to enjoy the raw power of the weapon. Asymmetrical balance is a thing between factions, and I think it can be a thing within individual classes too.
Agreed. But I see less tacticals initiating melee now. In the last patch or the one before it, I use to run into tacticals who would melee if you got close to them, as another tactical or havoc. Some still do that, but that seems to have been lost with more specialization. I liked that play style much better. When you turn a corner and another tactical was there, knifes came out. Now it seems you turn a corner and a tactical is there you backup and shoot.
Compare it's potency and usability to the Power Fist. Now charge 950LP for it in the loadout system Really it needs a delay, a cooldown, low low fuel reserves, more overheat for every input but lower heat generation for holding a single beam. Something like that. Utter devastation, yes. Some tradeoff in either survivability or ease of use, please.
Stormbolter is actually pretty burly at close to close-mid range. I have personally walked up and killed 3-4 dudes with it in one magazine. Is it as powerful as certain other weapons? No, but it's not bad either. It's a fun and dakka-rrific alternative for people that want to get a little closer.
I liked Nobb_of_Waaagh's suggestions just because these are radical change suggestions...and I like radical changes But I would disagree on the same accuracy for SB as for Bolter and the instant death on overheat for plasama weapons (just because you remove miniatures on TT doesn't mean they are dead...they are just not able to participate in that fight anymore, which could be related to something like downed state in EC). I think all the special weapons (or in general non-bolter weapons) could be much more deadly but even more restricted in their usage and effectiveness. As on topic. For MM I would vote for a brace+windup and for MG just the windup of half the time it would take for the MM.
