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Mathematical Balance of Weapons (Tabletop versus EC)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Docmo, Sep 26, 2016.

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How do Eternal Crusade's weapon stats compare to Tabletop?

  1. Good! It's an accurate representation of the weapons and their capability on tabletop.

  2. Needs improvement! The weapons are not good representations for their stats on tabletop.

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  1. Zaeryn Zaeryn Master

    It's a lot but games require complexity in order to work and be fun and engaging.
    Tactical Marine on the TT has a 3+ Armor Save(4 out of 6) and 4 Toughness(4 out of 10).
    In EC this should equate to 66.8 Armor and 40 HP.

    A Dire Avenger on the TT has a 4+ AS(3 of 6) and 3 T.
    In EC this should equate to 50.1 Armor and 30 HP.

    On TT, Bolter has a 1/6 chance To Wound a Tactical Marine that it Hits.
    Using 6 as the max hits, you calculate for Time-To-Kill.

    Many players enjoyed the TTK of the Bolter from WH40K: Space Marine, that had a TTK of ~1.73-seconds.
    1.75-seconds divided by 5 shots(the Fire Rate of the 1st shot is not counted) would give the Bolter a FR of 0.35-sec(~2.85 Bolts/sec).

    In EC, each point of Strength should equal 3.4 Base DMG.
    Imperial Guardsman(Human) is S3 and used as Base 10 DMG.
    Rounding DMG values to nearest tenth, S1 must be at least 3.4 for S3 to be at least 10(10.2).
    For each point of difference between Strength and Toughness + or - 10% DMG
    If Strength is at least 2x Toughness +50% DMG
    If Strength is 1/2 or less than Toughness -50% DMG

    Using these damage values, it would take a S4 Bolter 8 Bolts to Down the Tactical Marine for a 0.25-sec FR(4 Bolts/sec).

    Many other players enjoyed Eternal Crusade's original Bolter TTK of 1.44-seconds.
    A S4 Storm Bolter with a 0.2-sec FR has an 8 Bolt TTK of 1.4-sec.
    Reduced accuracy and increased recoil maintains the Storm Bolter's close-range advantage over the Bolter but gives the Bolter a long-range advantage against the Storm Bolter, while leaving both relatively even in medium-range performance.

    A S5 Heavy Bolter with a 0.2-sec FR has a 7 Bolt TTK of 1.2-sec. Add at least a 0.2-sec ready-up time and it's usually 1.4-sec.

    Bolter TTK vs Dire Avenger: 1.25-sec, 6 Bolts, 0.25-sec FR
    Bolter Accuracy: 3.4-cm spread at 24-meters
    Bolter Major DMG Drops: 48(or 24 or 12) and 96-meters

    Shuriken Catapult's DMG is reduced but its FR is increased in comparison to the Bolter.
    S.Cat. TTK vs Tactical Marine: 1.265-sec, 12 Shuriken, 0.115-sec FR
    S.Cat Accuracy: 4.5-cm spread at 24-meters
    S.Cat. Major DMG Drops: 36(or 18 or 9) and 72-meters

    While the S.Cat should be less accurate than the Bolter it should have less recoil and/or bloom per shot and less recoil/bloom from moving. Eldar should generally be better at firing on the move and at close-range, while C/SM should generally be better at firing from cover and at long-range.

    Tacticals/Traitors have Initiative 4 and Dire Avengers have Initiative 5
    C/SM Move Speeds
    Forward: 6-ms
    Strafe: 5-ms
    Back-Pedal: 4-ms
    Sprint: 1o or 12-ms

    Eldar Move Speeds: Base / Fleet of Foot
    Forward: 7.5-ms / 9-ms
    Strafe: 6-ms / 7.2-ms
    Back-Pedal: 4-ms / 4.8-ms
    Sprint: 12.5 or 15-ms / 15 or 18-ms

    Eldar should not only have smaller hit-boxes than C/SMs but should also move faster, both of which should contribute to higher Eldar accuracy at close and possibly medium range, helping counter the C/SM long-range advantage.

    Fleet of Foot should be an Active Ability that temporarily(I.E. 2 to 3-sec) increases the Eldar's move speed by ~20% or roughly 1 Initiative point. As a drawback, weapon bloom/recoil on the move would be increased when in use.

    Additionally, the Eldar's running/standing animation should change to one that leans forward more and takes faster steps as this not only reduces their forward profile to make them harder to hit but allows their head to be moved more quickly so it becomes harder to hit as well.

    S.Cat TTK vs Tactical(100% ACC): 1.265-sec, 12 Shuriken, 0.115-sec FR
    S.Cat TTK(90% ACC): 1.38-sec, 13 Shuriken
    S.Cat TTK(85% ACC): 1.495-sec, 14 Shuriken
    S.Cat TTK(80% ACC): 1.61-sec, 15 Shuriken
    S.Cat TTK(75% ACC): 1.725-sec, 16 Shuriken

    Bolter TTK vs D.Avenger(100% ACC): 1.25-sec, 6 Bolts, 0.25-sec FR
    Bolter TTK(90% ACC): 1.5-sec, 7 Bolts
    Bolter TTK(75% ACC): 1.75-sec, 8 Bolts
    Bolter TTK(65% ACC): 2-sec, 9 Bolts

    At longer ranges where damage begins to drop for the S.Cat first, the Bolter gains a slight TTK advantage, gradually growing as the S.Cat's damage continues dropping before the Bolter's, raising its required hit count more than the Bolter.

    Tactical Marine Combat Knife TTK vs Dire Avenger: 1.8-sec, 6 Basic Attacks, 0.3-sec AS
    Tactical's CK BA's deal the same DMG per hit as a Bolter so each Bolt landed is 1 less BA needed and each BA landed is 1 less Bolt needed to Down your enemy.

    Landing a melee attack should provide that player, regardless of class or faction, with temporary(I.E. 0.5 to 1.5-sec) ranged damage resistance(I.E. 50%).

    This would raise the S.Cat's TTK vs the Tactical from 1.265-sec(12 Shuriken) to 2.875-sec(26 Shuriken) or a bit more than 1-sec higher than the Marine's Combat Knife TTK vs the Dire Avenger.

    The Bolter's TTK vs the D.A would raise from 1.25-sec(6 Bolts) to 2.75-sec(12 Bolts).

    Dire Avenger Combat Knife TTK vs Tactical: 2.2-sec, 11 Basic Attacks, 0.2-sec AS
    While they should technically have a 0.25-sec AS due to their 5 Initiative that would give them a 2.75-sec TTK and only match that of the reduced Bolter; however, it may be necessary to have them with such a limitation if their close-ranged advantage proves a little too much in close-quarters(melee included).

    Eldar do need to land more hits than their enemies but not only attack but move faster, allowing them to land and avoid more strikes, while the use of ranged weapons in melee is still helpful*.

    *Head shots should deal +125% DMG, which allows players to soft counter melee by landing consecutive head shots.

    Orks should wear 'Eavy Armor by default as this gives them 50.1 Armor and 40 HP.
    Ork Move Speeds: Base / WAAAGH!1 / W!2
    Forward: 6-ms / 7-ms / 8-ms
    Strafe: 4.5-ms / 5.3-ms / 6-ms
    Back-Pedal: 3-ms / 3.5-ms / 4-ms
    Sprint: 10 or 12-ms / 11.7 or 14-ms / 13.4 or 16-ms

    Despite being of much lower Initiative on the TT(2) Orks also generally have a greater number of melee attacks available, indicating at the very least higher melee speed. I bumped them to Initiative 3 for balance and matched their Forward speed with C/SM, reducing all others and giving them similar melee speeds to make up for Ork ranged disadvantages.

    Bolter TTK vs Ork Boy: 1.5-sec, 7 Bolts, 0.25-sec FR, 30 Bolt Mag
    Bolter Accuracy: 3.4-cm spread at 24-meters
    Bolter DMG Drops: 48(or 24 or 12) and 96-meters

    Ork Shoota TTK vs Tactical: 1.26-sec, 8 Rounds, 0.18-sec FR, 45 to 60 Round Mag
    Shoota Accuracy: 6-cm spread at 24-meters
    Shoota DMG Drops: 27(or 13.5 or 6.8) and 54-meters

    SM Combat Knife TTK vs Ork Boy: 2.1-sec, 7 Basic Attacks, 0.3-sec AS

    Ork Choppa TTK vs Tactical: 2.4-sec, 2-sec, 1.6-sec, 8 BAs, 0.3-sec / 0.25-sec / 0.2-sec AS

    All Orks should have a WAAAGH! Active Ability that temporarily(I.E. 3 to 5-sec) buffs them and any Orks nearby(I.E. within 3-meters) with increased move/attack speed(+16.7%) and reduced ammo consumption(-25%).

    Basic Ork classes should passively provide other nearby Orks with 25 to 33.4% of the Active buff allowing a group of 4 to 5 Orks to have a full buff without using their Active. While the Active and Passive would not be able to stack, if more Orks gathered together you could build up to a 200% buff(WAAAGH! 2/Max) providing not only twice the benefits of the Active but possible additional boni like slow HP regeneration.

    And they very well can be equal as you CAN translate TT into the game. It is a matter of HOW you translate it. Simply because YOU don't know how to doesn't mean no one else does.
    Here is proof.
  2. *facepalm*

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