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Make unusable stuff usable

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Data8671, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Seriously... Why are some things so bad that they're just unusable? Why are some things just worse versions of other things? Isn't that just defeating the whole purpose of their existence? Power Fist, Halos, and grav pistols to name a few.
    Why are they still this way? It is such a waste to have them in game and no one uses them...

    A few examples and how to fix them:
    Power Fist: return to RPS system, take away the long delay in slamming down with a jpa, reduce LP cost to 300-400.
    Chainaxes: just buff the damage and penetration
    Halos: reduce LP cost significantly, 700LP is too much of the total LP, you can't take enough other gear
    Snapgrav: just a damage increase
    (Most) master crafted weapons: give them a meaningful bonus in stats...
    Lifesteal: increase lifesteal % so that it is actually useful
    Various weapon mods: make them useful, or nerf the most overused ones. Variety is good
    LSM new lascannon thing: damage increase
    A lot of weapons: just make mods for them!
    Thraxus likes this.
  2. Maybe doing that would end the endless supposed 'boltergeddon' and we might see a lot more variety in game, a lot more choice in build, and tacticals might start using weapons that aren't boltguns.
  3. Deathwish Deathwish Well-Known Member

    Restore fist mechanics to work with RPS again but the stats would have to change. In order to prevent the fist from becoming the meta melee weapon, you would have to first make the other melee weapons meaningful choices. (thanks Brent) I think for the most part, the other ones are in a pretty decent spot. Swords are quick but pretty weak. Stat wise, I think there is a bit of an identity crisis between PAX's and Mauls, but other than some changes to impact stat, they are sitting good. It's really just dealers choice when it comes to melee weapons. And now we come to fists....
    Bring it back to RPS. That much we can all agree on. Remove the ability to hold the strong attack charge. We all saw how cheese it was with the PC when you can hold a charge like that and release it at will. Damage. Set fast attack damage somewhere around 100. Set strong attack damage around the PAX/Maul level. Give it less impact than Mauls so that Mauls remain useful for breaking weapons. Lastly, keep the pen on fists around 360-400. (which ties into my other idea about weapons that pull double duty)
    As long as all weapons have a unique purpose and no one weapon is the meta, that is how you achieve asymmetrical balance.
    Thraxus and Data8671 like this.
  4. Construct_ Thraxus First Blood!

    ^ This x10 cubed

    Also this ^

    And this ^

    That would be a 'nice to have'. Actually just move everything up a notch:

    Chainsword gets Power Sword stats, Power Sword gets Power Axe stats, Power Fist is kinda awesome the way it is only needs to be sped up. In fact make all melee weapons the same speed, a little faster than the current sword meta, I mean you pay more you should get more.

    It'd make attacks more reliable and cut out the PF bullshit where faster weapon quick attacks cut between PF quick attacks.

    Yep, far too expensive, especially JPA halos, the most expensive of all halo's out there, why the buyas?

    Another 'nice to have'.

    Well yeah, MC Muh Boltur gets an extremely valuable increase in accuracy, Melee MC weapons on the other hand get more durability? What?? Not really value for LP when your bailed up in a clang battle and Muh Boltur derps lazily in your general direction insta jibbing you with their MC increased accuracy Boltur.

    10% Lifesteal for 100LP = too expensive.

    Either increase Lifesteal % significantly and keep the cost at 100LP so it's actually worth the LP (preferable)
    Or keep Lifesteal % as is and drastically reduce the LP cost.

    JPA are the only class that didn't get a trinket buff, they've still got their crappy 3% agility increase trinket where all other classes got a higher % increase trinket to go along with it. Muh Biased much?

    I have no opinion on this weapon and never see anyone use it so it must be bad.

    I think Heavies could use more weapon mods, the only ones they get are for Grav Cannons if I recall.
    Data8671 likes this.
  5. Fist sounds good, so long as it is still capable for AV.
    I think axes should be more about penetration and slicing through armour, while mauls should be about bashing in your opponent's skull and stunning them.
  6. Deathwish Deathwish Well-Known Member

    Since fists pull double duty with AV and AI, the LP costs would have to stay up in the 400-600 range or else it would just be the best of all worlds. That is, of course, if all the other changes happened.
  7. Poor it at 600 and it would still be bad on the basis that you wouldn't have much in the way of armour.
    300-400 at most.
  8. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    I don't agree with buffing Swords and Axe weapons and moving everything up a notch.. that going to be way to overpowered
    Chain swords and Chain axes are fine
    As are Ork Blades.

    There is no need to buff these weapons.
    Chain Swords and Regular blades for orks are good because they are the cheapest fast weapon.
    Chain axe is good as is because it's the cheapest Assassination weapon giving you that sweet 2 hit kill on most people from behind.

    A regular chainsword or blade with pen mod or damage mod and clanging generator is a decant weapon and even cheaper than a NCS. and is more than capable of killing with the current button mash meta.
    Btw whoever sad you can't go 5 vs 1 as melee was right about one die.... but 5 lsm pansies died with me!!..

    As is the Chain Axe.
    They are fine at breaking sword and knife types durability and can be modded for damage increase and clanging.
    Putting a clanging mod on any regular weapon btw also means it automatically defeats any loot box purple weapon of the same type on a clang since those weapons only have the basic impact values of their respective weapon type.

    Both are significantly cheaper than the Power Weapon versions which in turn allows one to spend more LP in survivability or utility so one can button mash longer or more fancy with some nade spam or what have you.
  9. Fiesty_Won Fiesty_Won First Blood!

    Cool video, nice to see an Ork melee unit actually be a threat.......but wait, not a single one of those space marines engaged you.

    If even one of them light attacked you for clangs or even tried a dbash, you would have died with maybe 1 kill. If that apothecary even bothered to do its job and zombie fellow marines, you'd of gotten 0 kills. If all the space marines there had situational awareness, you would have died with maybe 1 kill.

    What I am seeing here is first time players versus an experienced one. That alone is something that needs more attention, because the outcome of those players experiences is going to be ORKS OP, NERF MELEEEE, REEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
  10. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    Clangs don't kill me .. it just prevents a bid of damage on their end. they might even break their knife and stun them selfs.
    D-bashes from tac's are laughable at best.
    If they stun you .. just spam spacebar in a random direction to roll out of it with minimal damage taken.
    If they circle me and start shooting . I still have a shield to soak up damage with that..

    Those were noobs that panicked. the wolf guy irrc even shot his own teammate trieng to at shoot me. .. but that's the player base currently playing the game.

    If you wanna see multiple combattent melee with actual people fighting back then here is me fighting 3 guys as a MoT GA.. yes mark of Tzeentch..bassically stalling till backup arrives .. I'm using a Mastercrafted Chainsword here with an impact mod.
    I was sortoff testing MoT's melee game here.. so the loadout was aimed towards armor and stamina regeneration and clanging on a budget.
    Trust me ..i've done enough weird shit over time to say those weapon classes we mentioned don't need buffs right now.


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