Huh. Did that change in a more recent-ish Codex? I'm fairly certain Fleet-of-Foot was at least at some point precluded by a 3+ Armour Save.

It has been this way since at least 6th edition, I don't have access to a 5th edition codex. From the looks of the 4th edition codex Aspect Warriors with a 3+ save did not have Fleet, although in that codex Fire Dragons are listed with a 4+ save and as such they still had Fleet.

I think I'm thinking of 5th. Will check the Codex this evening, though frankly if current Codex says gives Scorpions and Dragons Fleet, then Fleet it is.

That's one of the issues I addressed but we can't actually look at in a vacuum in EC. Sadly, it would be far more detrimental to the game to try and work out varied armor saves and toughness comparatively.

Yeah, a direct translation of TT stats is a no-go for many reasons, not least of which is that the units in question cost different points values. Never mind the very dubious assumption that TT is at all balanced.

The problem I have with the idea of normalising EHP, is that I don't think EHP actually needs to be normalised. What needs to be normalised is TTK. If a Marine has 10hp and 10dps, he kills a mirror-traitor in 1s. If an Eldar has 5hp and 20dps, they and the Marine kill eachother in... 0.5s each. TTK equalised, all is fine.

The problem is that in EC currently, TTK is not normalised (it will never be 100% normalised, because there are other balance concerns, granted) for what appear to be... dubious reasons. Namely, that the Devs appear to have seen fit to give the factions different teamwork reward ratios. Specifically, Orks gain no or minimal mechanical teamwork advantage. That is, their effectiveness more or less increases linearly with the number of Orks present. Eldar, at the other extreme, have a combination of terrible base stats (there can be no argument about hitboxes or speed balancing this, the TTKs differences are...dramatic) but a series of powerful stacking buffs that mean that Eldar teams - assuming a correct composition, including dedicated buffbot Warlocks - are 'equal to' correctly composed Marine forces at something like 5-7 bodies aside, and gain a rapidly increasing advantage as team sizes increase from there on.

I... simply don't think making some factions benefit more from organised play than others is smart. At all. It leads to a situation where actually equal engagements are rare due to only one or other faction being able to hit their composition 'sweet spot' at a time, and on top of that makes Orks - of all factions - the ones that scale least well with increased numbers. Which is just bizarre.

Well, I'd argue that in TT the troops selections are all pretty reasonable, for generic WYSIWYG. Orks aside, of course. CSM book needs work too, but it's not terrible in a vacuum.

You only get to see retarded shit when you start loading up Jetbike Seer Councils with Wraithknights and allied Riptide wings or Chapter Master Smashfucker with his bike brigade of cheerleaders.

Here's my take on it:

TLDR; Swap Armour differences with Health differences. Squeeze maximum and minimum EHPs together.

Space Marines:

Tactical - Medium Health training, 200H/100A > 300EHP
Devastator - Low Health training, 175H/100A > 275EHP
Jump Pack Assault - Low Health training, 175H/100A > 275EHP
Apothecary - Low Health training, 175H/100A > 275EHP
Ground Assault - High Health training, 225H/100A > 325EHP

High = 225 Health
Medium = 200 Health
Low = 175 Health

All 100 Armour.

Chaos Space Marines:

Traitor - Medium Health training, 200H/100A > 300EHP
Havoc - Low Health training, 175H/100A > 275EHP
Raptor - Low Health training, 175H/100A > 275EHP
Aspiring Sorcerer - Low Health training, 175H/100A > 275EHP
Traitor Assault - High Health training, 225H/100A > 325EHP

High = 225 Health
Medium = 200 Health
Low = 175 Health

All 100 Armour.

Orks:

Shoota Boy - Medium Health training, 240H/75A > 315EHP
Loota - Low Health training, 215H/75A > 290EHP
Stormboy - Low Health training, 215H/75A > 290EHP
Slugga Boy - High Health training, 265H/75A > 340EHP
Painboy - Low Health training, 215H/75A > 290EHP

High = 265 health
Medium = 240 health
Low = 215 health

All 75 Armour.

Eldar:

Striking Scorpion - High Health training, Heavy Aspect Armour, 210H/100A > 310EHP
Howling Banshee - High Health training, Aspect Armour, 210H/75A > 285EHP
Dire Avenger - Medium Health training, Aspect Armour, 185H/75A > 260EHP
Fire Dragon - Medium Health training, Heavy Aspect Armour, 185H/100A > 285EHP
Dark Reaper - Low Health training, Heavy Aspect Armour, 160H/100A > 260EHP
Swooping Hawk - Low Health training, Aspect Armour, 160H/75A > 235EHP
Warlock - Low Health training, Rune Armour, 160H/75A>235EHP

High = 210 health
Medium = 185 health
Low = 160 health

Heavy Aspect Armour - 100 Armour
Aspect/Rune Armour - 75 Armour

I could be convinced Heavies should have Medium Health training. Or indeed that Fire Dragons should have Low. I kinda consider them Tactical-equivalents though.

-----------------------

Lowest class EHP across all factions: Warlock and Swooping Hawk at 235
Highest class EHP across all factions: Slugga Boy at 340
Difference: 105 EHP.

Lowest 'Tactical' archetype EHP: Dire Avenger at 260
Highest 'Tactical' archetype EHP: Shoota Boy at 315
Difference: 55EHP

Lowest 'Ground melee' archetype EHP: Howling Banshee at 285
Highest 'Ground Melee' archetype EHP: Slugga Boy at 340
Difference: 55EHP

Lowest 'Jump' archetype EHP: Swooping Hawk at 235
Highest 'Jump' archetype EHP: Stormboy at 290
Difference: 55EHP

Lowest 'Heavy Weapons' archetype EHP: Dark Reaper at 260
Highest 'Heavy Weapons' archetype EHP: Loota at 290
Difference: 30EHP

Lowest 'Support' archetype EHP: Warlock at 235
Highest 'Support' archetype EHP: Painboy at 290
Difference: 55EHP

Naked no-mods TTKs/HTKs, assuming time from 1st bullet hit (i.e. bullets required minus one):

1. Bolter
2. Storm Bolter
3. Chainsword


Space Marines:

Tactical - Medium Health training, 300EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Devastator - Low Health training, 275EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Jump Pack Assault - Low Health training, 275EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Apothecary - Low Health training, 275EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Ground Assault - High Health training, 325EHP

1. 1.44s
2. 1.15s
3. 4 Fast / 2 Strong

Chaos Space Marines:

Traitor - Medium Health training, 300EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Havoc - Low Health training, 275EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Raptor - Low Health training, 275EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Aspiring Sorcerer - Low Health training, 275EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Traitor Assault - High Health training, 325EHP

1. 1.44s
2. 1.15s
3. 4 Fast / 2 Strong

Orks:

Shoota Boy - Medium Health training, 315EHP

1. 1.44s
2. 1.15s
3. 4 Fast / 2 Strong

Loota - Low Health training, 290EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Stormboy - Low Health training, 290EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Slugga Boy - High Health training, 340EHP

1. 1.44s
2. 1.15s
3. 4 Fast / 2 Strong

Painboy - Low Health training, 290EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Eldar:

Striking Scorpion - High Health training, 310EHP

1. 1.44s
2. 1.15s
3. 4 Fast / 2 Strong

Howling Banshee - High Health training, 285EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Dire Avenger - Medium Health training, 260EHP

1. 1.08s
2. 0.86s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Fire Dragon - Medium Health training, 285EHP

1. 1.26s
2. 1.01s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Dark Reaper - Low Health training, 260EHP

1. 1.08s
2. 0.86s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Swooping Hawk - Low Health training, 235EHP

1. 1.08s
2. 0.86s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

Warlock - Low Health training, 235EHP

1. 1.08s
2. 0.86s
3. 3 Fast / 2 Strong

... It's beautiful.

*sits down to watch the numbers.*

Nice. But why are the Heavy Ordnances the most resilient ones? Shouldn't GAs be the most resilient ones?