Maybe if Space Marines actually practised instead of complaining about how their models run, you'd be able to win for a change :^)

That's literally the shit excuse I hear over and over again that the op faction uses. LSM used that when EC hit steam, CSM used that until the recent update, and now Eldar.


I guess orks are next.

Don't use bad words,the thread will be locked :^) Not our fault we win most matches because you all try to spam melee attacks in order to win.Hell, most of the SM players don't even know how to lock on other players and hit the air.Less salt,more practise :^)

Well lets start with this.

I should start by saying I actually don't think the SS needs a nerf, the class seems rather balanced from what I've seen. My issue is the SS's skill set being combined with the main line battle units ability to soak up so much damage and attention. It allows the SS too much leeway in working its craft.

And thats my biggest issue with SS is that they can move into a back line undetected, even while people are looking at them. So getting into the back line isn't the most difficult ordeal, you just have to be patient, and when they do find their enemy they have a one hit KO you cant hear or even react to, if they did their job correctly, all they have to do is then cloak again and repeat. No one has ever said... yeah that was a good back stab, you certainly out played me!

Where as the JPA is a large target that makes a lot of noise when they jump onto an enemy, an enemy that can roll out of the way of the smash damage and if they judged it right, can either out run the assault, run into a building (which itself makes JPA a shield less GA) or back peddle, dodge and shoot, or if you're not alone, just Dbash to freedom and let your team mate shoot the JPA, something you're rarely afforded with SS. Not to mention JPA and Raptors have limited jumps.

Then you factor in the foot speed, agility and the hit box, all of which allow the SS to efficiently dodge and retreat if need be, not to mention increase the likelihood of friendly fire, made only worse if the SS lag jumps. Where as the JPA being the 8 foot monster he is, can be shot by everyone fairly easily. Over all I rarely ever consider JPA or Raptors to be a huge threat, you see them and you reposition

I'll come back later to debate further... you Eldar and yer long ass posts...

Also before I take a break from this, in the lore, TT and design, the Marines armor is touted as superior and indeed provides better armor saves to all Eldar armor, all expect the DR, SS and Dragon armor, And those are only ever compared to space marine armor, not its superior.

I don't think you want lore and TT figures as an ally when trying to defend you're un fluffy armor values.

Also to be fair, every time the lore wants to show how badass something is, it's always saying how effective it's turning ceramite into thinly sliced butter.

Oh balls I've disagreed with an Eldar player, have mercy!

So I'm going to keep this short, but I'll share my thoughts in short-mode.

Before anything, there are about a mountain of bugs, errors, and problems on the technical side of things that needs to be fixed. This is including, but not limited to, lag, latency, netcode, hit reg, warping, stuttering, lacking hitmarkers/hit visual cues, terrain issues, vault issues, cover camera issues, cover issues in general, and the list goes on. Much of those problems can and will skew any perception, regardless of the side of the argument you may be on.

That being said, and with my own experience as a compass through the bugs, my opinion is this...

1.) The Eldar first and foremost need to suffer the same tweaks with their SC as the HB should receive. Basically, less armor damage (by alot), a sizable reduction in effectiveness past 100m (like damage dropoff/inaccuracy/maybe another look at brace times/etc).

2.) Their vehicles first and foremost need some tweaking so they aren't getting into areas they shouldn't, which we all know should, and is, going to happen. Also, whatever changes are made to the SC, should be applied to the vehicle variants (same as any changes to the HB should apply to the Pred's). Other than that, I'm really OK with them. The only problem I really have with them is the dual SC, and that's more the strength of the current SC than the actual vehicles themselves.

3.) Their durability. This is really the most controversial thing I'm bringing up. Long story short, they are too durable for their current damage output. Seriously the Eldar's durability is way too close to the marines, and in some cases can even match a marine, which is ridiculous. They are much more mobile than a marine, they have a smaller hitbox (by quite a bit), and their movement is much more erratic. While I don't think we need to nerf them into "HALF OF EVERYTHING111!!!ONEONE". I do very strongly believe their durability needs to be reassessed and likely lowered a bit. At this point, their "squishiness" is nowhere near an even trade for their advantages. The important thing to note is, we NEED to make sure we have a more stable situation on the technical issues before we do this, we don't want to be nerfing/tweaking anyone based on skewed perceptions of a broken server/patch.

@MacBeth I'm not actually an eldar player, I tend to play whatever is hurting the most for players, so rarely LSM, but the other ones on a rotating basis.

We can disagree on this. I think the jump capabilities of the assault/raptor/stormboy plus weapon loadout make them equal (and definitely farther ranging) back line harassers to the SS. They can chase down any spot on the map, something the SS is too slow to do. And having been suckerpunched by both powerfists and scorpion chainswords, I actually prefer the chainsword. I find it less cheap, I should have looked around, it wasn't an unblockable attack from the sky.

I'm not sure you quite dig how superior eldar are to space marines. The DR/SS/FD armour is an equal match for astartes power armour, but without being unduly inhibiting (and eldar have line of sight over their shoulders, a great boon. Maybe if space marines didn't wear power armour they could see striking scorpions sneaking up on them?). Shuriken weapons also don't have bladestorm, which goes through power armour. So yes the eldar are tougher than they should be, but also less deadly. Instead of wildly varying numbers across the board the factions got equalized, because that's so much easier to balance (ya know, that thing everyone has an opinion on about which way it should go). And ork boyz got buffed into an equal category, which was right and proper in the name of fun for a videogame.

Come on you two, don't be petty, were all trying to have a decent debate about the balance on Eldar.