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How to fight Eldar, for Dummies

Discussion in 'New Player Tips & Training' started by Rheeva, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    Dont take the 'Dummies' personally, but I couldnt stop myself from writing it.
    The premise of this thread is fairly simple: Eldar are the weakest Faction, yet they are widely regarded 'OP'.
    This is partially in thanks to good players repeating this meme sarcastially and new players picking it up, to all of you: just stop it!
    Shitposting or however you want to call it: It doesnt hurt you, but it hurts the new guys. If they think Eldar are too OP to beat, they will never take the time to figure out, how to beat them.

    With that being said, fighting Eldar does require you to change your tactics. Lets start with some basics:

    -Eldar are a very teamplay-heavy faction. We have the best Support, we play a wide variety of specialists rather than one allrounder and we communicate more than any other faction. Never assume for an Eldar to be alone. If you see one, there are two more you dont currently see.
    Most of our high-profile players also know each other, which means we coordinate much more effectively.

    -Eldar are fragile. If you are in a duel, you should always win. Hitbox and speed matter outside a fight, but not when the fight has started. All you have to do is aim for the head and not miss, your TTK on them is always shorter than our TTK on you. If an Eldar beats you in an open fight, the fault is yours. Keep that in mind and engage us confidently, it is always an uphill battle for us, so try to force open fights rather than playing our games.

    -With that in mind, Eldar will do everything to avoid fair fights. The easiest way to do so is alpha-striking, dealing a lot of damage before you can fight back. This can be a Striking Scorpion attacking from invisibility, or a Dire Avenger or Howling Banshee waiting around a corner (corners are great for Eldar). You should avoid that. Try pre-firing when engaging Eldar.

    -Protect your Heavies. Heavies are great targets. They can deal a lot of damage against us but are easy to hunt down. I can only advise you to take care of them and not let them stand alone.

    -Dont look to the front. Dire Avengers and Banshees will try to flank you, Scorpions will come from the back and Hawks from above. The more directions you can cover, the better. The Eldar that makes an easy target right in front of you is either a decoy or so new she wont be a threat, you should be worried about the hard targets.

    -We are all One-Trick-Ponies. We do one thing and that really well. Engage us outside of our comfort-zone, and we go down.

    Lets do a more detailed analysis of some of our most important and most hated assets.

    The Swooping Hawk.
    Truth be told, Hawks right now are, in the right hands, a rather powerful class. If you are running against a good Hawk, never run alone. Isolated targets are ridiculously easy to take out, seek safety in numbers.
    Watch the skies, primarely watch high-ground around you. If you are defending, never brace a Heavy Weapon on a position where there is high-ground in your back. I will land there and I will kill you. The more you stay indoors, the more confined the space you are, the better.
    Hawks loose effectivity a lot once inside a point, so try to take the fight there rather than out in the open.
    Also, the main Hawk Weapon is awful at hip-firing, so try to lure them close to you.
    Even the strongest Hawk can not win against TTK, they deal less damage and have less health, if you shoot at them they will have to keep their head down or retreat. It is fairly hard to actually kill a Hawk, but you can keep them from harming your team quite easily.
    Most importantly, Hawks are the hardest class to play in EC. You wont meet many good Hawks and if you, as a mediocre player, are enough to stop them from doing their job, its usually a win, even if you cant kill them.
    ADAD-strafing is effective, as the Hunters Mark has a low rate of fire and has to score headshots.

    The Warlock.
    Usually it is a good idea to focus the Support, not so much for the Warlock. They are the most effective Tanks Eldar have, they can heal themselves and the team simultaneously. If you get a good shot at a Warlock you can try killing her, but if she knows her game, she will just dodge out. On the other hand our heal is not strong enough to save a target under focus fire, so you can just down and finish any Eldar with gunplay, Warlocks are mostly there to restore survivors in cover.
    What you have to watch out for is the golden ring around enemy forces. That is our primary, 100% upkeep buff: Enhance. +20% Outgoing Hitscan Damage, -20% Incoming Hitscan Damage. The reason why you have to watch out for it is because its a gamechanger.
    Remember when I said earlier how Eldar will loose any direct confrontation: Now we have a solid chance, even an advantage if you do not have any Support-characters.
    Treat any Eldar with this buff as an equal opponent, especially Dire Avengers.
    Most Warlocks are also fairly capable melee-fighters and will much more likely engage in melee than, for instance, an Aspiring Sorcerer.
    Warlock heals are a great target for Plasma-cannons.

    The Striking Scorpion. I honestly dont get, why people have a problem with Scorpions. The Lashsword is identical to the Necrotic Chainsword, the stealth is useless. It has been theorized that stealth is more effective on low graphic-setting, which would explain a lot.
    However, it is not usually enough to hide on plain field, it has to be used in corners or cover to make an ambush more effective, so I highly recommend checking out those spots before dropping your guard, especially when back-capturing a point.
    Once unstealthed, its just another melee-class with a good sword, subpar pistol and Eldar health, I think the reason people find them hard to beat is purely psychological.
    The concept is simple: Scorpions excel at stealth, so if you dont let them strike you from stealth, you should be fine.

    The Fire Dragon. "Fire Dragons are OP because they kill vehicles in 0.5 seconds". I have heard this so many times now...its not wrong, but its an oversimplification of the matter.
    Fire Dragons can kill any Tank by placing two Melta-bombs at its back-half. Once the Fire Dragon has reached the Tank this is, indeed, very hard to stop from happening and you lost a Transport or a Predator.
    However people keep pretending it is so hard to stop Fire Dragons from getting to the Tank. It is not harder or easier than with any AV-player, Serpents are similarly easy to kill (one bomb+short melta burst) but it happens a lot less, why is that?
    Primarely, because we have many, many more AV-players. Two Dragons per team is pretty much minimum, LSM teams with even a single, dedicated AV-player are a rarity, CSM even less.
    If you want to know, how to stop a Dragon, just imagine, if you are running out of a point to the enemies vehicle, how would they stop you?
    You are 15% slower, not bright orange and have more health, your TTK on Eldar vehicles is almost identical.
    The easiest, but most boring way is to just keep your Tank moving. You cant place Melta-bombs on a moving vehicle. Never stop and you are good.
    I have spend a lot of time perfecting the art of getting to the enemies vehicles alive, preferably making it out alive too. What most frequently stops me is a JPA or Raptor I meet on the way. I cant run from them, I cant fight them, and Quick-Attack spam stops me from planting Bombs even if I do get close. Heavies or Stalkers behind the enemy line who spot me on the open field come next.
    Most importantly you cant just rely on someone spotting me by chance, you need to be actively on the lookout for Dragons.
    Placing your Rhino in the open field helps, so I cant approach it in cover. I just want to mention that, at times, I have literally been running through an entire push of 8, 9 marines going the opposite way. Sure they turned around to shoot me, but then concluded someone else would take care of it and continued their push. And those people act all surprised if they loose.
    The most dangerous Dragons however, are not on foot, we will get to that in a moment.

    Serpents and Falcons. I can not recommend running against Eldar without at least two AV-players. That is because we are going to have at least two AV-players, and if you dont, you will loose this part of the fight whereever you go.
    Simply put: Fire Dragons will get Serpents or Falcons to drive around, fuck up your Rhinos and farm roadkills on whoever comes out.
    For a while you can delay them by not stopping but eventually we will find a way to block your Vehicle with ours for but a few seconds or get a Haywire-Hawk, and thats game-over.
    Predators can be hard to deal with if they have at least two people in them, but with some time we get them too.
    Winning a game without vehicles is really hard and as long as Eldar have active Tanks, your vehicles will burn!
    So, really, the only way to deal with an Eldar team utilizing Tanks is to kill those Tanks. If you dont play counter-AV, you can not win!
    Easiest way to deal with piloted Tanks are Vulcan-Melta+Grav-Cannon or double Lascannon.

    These are the assets with legitimate complains. If you have problems with anything else, like Howling Banshees, Reaper Launchers or Dire Avengers, the problem is you, not the Eldar. However you are still welcome to specify your problem and I can give you some advice.
    I will now leave a couple of tipps against Eldar that may help you:
    -Stalker Bolters and Storm Bolters can be highly effective if the Boltgun doesnt work well for you.
    -Long ranged AV can melt our Tanks at little risk to yourself.
    -Your Grenades are much more effective than ours.
    -Servo-skulls make a big difference in fights and they have more health than us.
    -Hawks become useless at the tiniest bit of supression.
    -A one-person Predator is lost, a two-person Predator is unstoppable.
    -There is no way a non-melee Eldar can beat you if you just spam Quick-Attacks.
    -Dont expect to surprise an Eldar, we always hear your footsteps.
    -If you watch out for your teammates, it makes half our classes useless.
    -You almost always have the edge on long-range.
    -Never rescue downed you find in the wild. Its a trap and Im sitting on a roof next to you, its a classic sniper-tactic.
    -Your Smart-Pistol will outgun most of our weapons on close range.

    As for responses to this thread, I wish NO DISCUSSION about the whether or not Eldar are OP. You are free to discuss those matters anywhere, but the premise of this thread is that they are not, which is the opinion shared by pretty much every top-player and the devs.
    What I do appreciate are:
    -Questions about how to fight Eldar that I have not answered.
    -Corrections of my advice or helpful things you noticed yourself.
    -Any advice on how to make this more compact and/or better to read.
    CuCulainn, Defiance, Eldritch and 6 others like this.
  2. Alright guys this is a guide not a place to argue over. If you want to add to this discussion about how to fight the Eldar you can but that is all. I will remove any other discussions that are not on topic.
    TheEmprahsWorst and Rheeva like this.
  3. Sindri Myr AnotherAlpharius Steam Early Access

    Eldar has written a guide how to fight them? Alpha Legion approves :CSMAlpha:
    But you just could've write take multimelta - win.
  4. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    I have seen MM a lot lately, even as AP-weapon against Eldar. How many Alpharii are there, exactly?
  5. Sindri Myr AnotherAlpharius Steam Early Access

    1 waMt to saI, but it's cLassified :CSMAlpha:
  6. Farseer Caerys Caerys Arkhona Vanguard

    For anyone wondering why there's no info on countering Howling Banshees its because you can't. Thier literally the best class in the game with no couners and you should definitely go afk and let them kill you because you have no chance to beat them.
  7. Judasilfarion Silfarion Drill Abbott

    This isn't a very good place for that
  8. Durash Durash Arkhona Vanguard

    Durash's guide on how to fight the eldar:

    1. Take any gun,preferably the default one of your faction.
    2. Shoot the eldar in the face.
    3. Profit

    This guide hasn't failed me yet, and you can use it on ANY faction too!
  9. Proteus Lychoro ProteusVM Forum Beta Tester

    Just to make a few points here as some of this is a bit off.
    Unless you're fighting an entire team of TLASC wielding Dire Avengers - never run the Storm Bolter. You'll develop bad habits as it is only useful at 0 - 15m, beyond that you'll generally find the accuracy lacking when you want those headshots as it only has a DPS advantage of something like 30 - 60 dps over the modded bolter.

    Stalker bolter is also not advisable - if you put in the time to practice with it, sure, but do not pull it simply because you're now fighting Eldar. That firing delay will get you killed at close and even mid range if you can't compensate for it with clever positioning and timing.

    You also cannot afford to miss a single headshot with a stalker bolter if you really want to be effective, otherwise you're better off running a bolter.

    Make sure you're practicing grenade tricks for this kind of play-style, you'll need them when shit hits the fan and you're being swarmed at close range. You also lose 30 - 50 DPS using a Stalker bolter compared to a regular bolter or a modded bolter so it's generally not advisable if you're clearing capture points since that DPS loss is pretty terrible when you're fighting a faction with 250 - 300 DPS on their cap class.

    The plasma gun can be surprisingly strong if you can land headshots, functioning as a mix between the Bolter & the Stalker Bolter. It really allows you to tear shit up at any range as long as you can land those headshots, especially versus Eldar - that high alpha damage is beastly. Though it does suffer from 16 shots per overheat, which is pretty terrible if you're being swarmed, but the high alpha damage more than makes up for it if you use it as at mid range and focus on landing headshots.

    Servo Skulls are nice, but ultimately pointless versus Eldar. Go with frag grenades 9 times out of 10 - they'll disrupt the area you shoot them in and can be a godsend when you need to kill a few bunched up Eldar while you've got the drop on them.

    Predators in general are a waste of time - unless you're getting absolutely smashed by a defensive position and you need to suppress it - then a predator might come in handy but other than that? those two players rushing into a capture point can be absolutely vital.
    If you are going to run a predator though - make sure you're playing an AV loadout so that if your tank is destroyed or you are near an idle vehicle, you can jump out and break their party wagon a lot faster.

    Rest of this is pretty solid advice though, though running smart weapons is HERESY, I'd also add that running the Voice of the Emperor can be particularly nasty to Eldar - especially to hawks. They have a weapon very similar to the Stalker bolter so shutting that down with double suppression means you can shut their position down entirely just by shooting in their general direction.
    CuCulainn likes this.
  10. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    As for Stalkers and Storms: I would not recommend them either if you are good with your Bolter. However, both are the better choice if you can not reliably score Headshots in CQC.
    Stor-Bolter works better to spray and pray the center of mass, even though it means surrendering your long-range advantage. From my own experience with the Stalker I recall it being above average effective against Eldar and below average against Orks. Taking out most Targets with 1-3 shots at a distance they cant even harm you is not bad.
    Needless to say that we are talking about sniping, not rollquickscoping.
    Obviously too many Snipers will prove counter-productive, especially since Eldar lack stationary units, but if you have enough to give Hawks a bad time, it helps. Also, the are decent to interfere in melee without killing your teammate.

    Servo skulls do a lot. The damage buff partially compensates for Enhance and is the only equivalent that can be applied to the team similarly easy. Only one Tactical needs to bring one, but I barely see anyone doing it.
    Even if we leave the damage-buff out, it is one-two seconds I have to focus on killing the Skull rather than you and they make it a lot harder to sneak up on someone.

    I would not recommend using Tanks in offense, generally, unless to protect your Transports.
    But defensively...I had games, in particular against orks or guildtsacks, where a fully.manned Wagon or Pred would drive around for minutes and literally destroy everything in LoS. If noone brings Haywire, they are unstoppable.
    In a less extreme scenario, a 3-player guild drove their Predator in front of the main entrance to Zedek B.
    It took us maybe 2-3 minutes to get past that thing and we werent able to do anything else in that time. Everyone who tried to get close got torn apart. These 2-3 minutes along with the morale are not something you recover from, even if you got the better team.

    Plasma can really be a good weapon-choice. I have problems estimating the heat of the weapon, whereas counting bullets in a Boltgun is rather easy. (And pointless if its a drummag)
    Also the AOE-shot is rather hard to avoid if there is only the smallest latency spike and there usually is.
    It will mostly kill us and even if it doesnt, we wont survive the stun-period.

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