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Heavy Weapon Balance Thread (Kannon Included!)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Drakonite, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. MetalMessiah Recruit

    1/2 of the armies do not have an across the map one shot /now/ and the matches don't devolve into that. I don't see how focusing on finishing off downed people as you attack is any worse than the top 2-3 people hammering down 30-50 kills each because they run kannon all game and have a vague idea how to aim.

    Tell ya what, just try the game with toned down kannons, they should be pulling data like how many people quit out of the game mid-match.
    See what kind of frustration metrics change on both sides and decide if it is a positive change.
  2. Kyros Drakonite Preacher

    LSM vs CSM doesn't have one-shots on either side, and you'll rarely see attackers win on fortress matches. Eldar vs Ork does and both factions got a decent chance at either outcome.

    And then we have SM's vs Xenos match where one side has one-shots and the other doesn't. Ergo the complaining we see today.

    So, you can either nerf the Kannon and then Nerf the Starshot, or buff the PC.

    It's just the situation you want to be in. Do you want to be in a game where there is no remaining one shots to pierce through defenses? Or one where all factions have an equal chance at doing so.

    A world with a tonned down Kannon is going to get us into an impassé, because you can't remove the Starshot's 1-hit-KO without making it useless against vehicles/quads. So either Eldar will end up with the only remaining 1-hit-KO (Can you imagine that outcry?), or they will be the only faction that can't destroy Quads at range.

    And like I said, you can reduce the frustration of the Kannon by buffing its counters. It's really that simple. Kannon used to be a total non-issue when they couldn't peek their fat self without getting Las'd. Because then when you explode by a Kannon you can go "Oh, I'll swap to my PC/Las and deal with it" instead of being frustrated that nothing you can do will counter it.
  3. Avlaen Avlaen Arkhona Vanguard

    What if they made starshot function like a lascannon? with the lock on beam then fires a super fast missile with no AOE? then make starswarm actually viable.

    so you dont have people starshotting infantry all the time?
  4. MetalMessiah Recruit

    Sure you can
  5. Xio Valency Xi0 Preacher

    Then it would need to be hit scan and have 1 less second charge time and even then it can't shoot over chest high cover because you hold it like a heavy boltor not a lascannon which means you can't even poke safely like every other weapon of that type, unless those are fixed and or starswarm is a good as plasma cannon snapshots as well its a waste of space and 100% of the weapon becomes bad instead of 50% of the weapon.

    And thats just to make it semi acceptable anyway as it will have a longer TTK for AV than a Lascannon even if those are fixed anyway since Eldar tanks have two weak points and 40% less health.
  6. Threule Threule1994 Firebrand

    tl;dr buff marines nerf rest thread 1.000.000 congrats you made it son
  7. Avlaen Avlaen Arkhona Vanguard

    id be fine with the star shot being hit scan if it functioned like the lascannon, it just needs some way to not be the infantry sniper it currently is.

    Then if star swarm is buffed a bit so its volley is actually good aoe, and a single snap missile is decent, that would be a good balance.

    Would be a slight mix of lascannon/plasmacannon.

    The other option would be seperate the 2 fire modes into 2 seperate weapons, and give each one the love it needs, and then you dont need to worry about the weapon being too powerful because it can perform alot of roles at once (similar to the kannon)
  8. Kyros Drakonite Preacher

    Do elaborate. How would you go about it?

    We run unto two problems here. The first is lore and in a sense, in-game immersion. It makes little to no sense to have the Reaper Missile be a hitscan. The whole mechanic where you can guide your missile would be pointless if you need to lock in your target before being able to actually fire the missile.

    The second is that it seems you people want a game without one-hit-KO's. I already stated that it would make Fortress matches an absolute grindfest, like what we currently get on CSM/LSM fortress matches where attackers can't hope to win. Having no way to remove a highly secured entrenched position is just not good for the game health or balance. Plus this is a WH40k game.

    Understand this, I absolutely hate getting one-shotted, but I still understand that it is an essential part of how the game functions. It just needs to be balanced, or fair.
  9. Avlaen Avlaen Arkhona Vanguard

    Bolt rounds are essentialy mini missiles, and if i recall correctly reaper missiles are meant to be supersonic.

    But if we are going to give everyone a long ranged OHK they need to be equally viable and equally visible to the enemy about to get OHK which isnt the case atm.
  10. Kyros Drakonite Preacher

    Yes! This is exactly what I'm asking!

    I don't have any issues when I play Orkz or Eldar. But when I'm on my LSM, I can't do anything to those heavies up there. It's why I think this whole thing started.

    My default reaction on fortress grindfests was to get either cannon (Typically Las since I dont always carryt he PC loadout) and start blowing up braced bolters, the way I do on Eldar/Orks. But I can't do that now, and I'm left with nothing else to do.

    I repeat, kannons are an absolute non-issue on Eldar. It was this way for SM's in the past too.

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