My math aren't to be taken to the letter it was more an example than a reality. Btw I don't have all toughness buff on my Eldar character so I don't know. But as SS I take no armour or toughness buff but invisibility buff and damage mods.
I want considering that their about stats would increase with the toughness is where I wasnt following, and I would be fine with it not as only revered do I usually put any armor on as 400 leaves most with default weapons or powers.
Right, and that is why I would rather see the warfare stats for toughness take the hit instead of the race. By putting it on the race is assuming everyone will be default run with that toughness gear, and penalize all the builds that don't use armor or toughness which I know is the majority build.
You either didn't read what I wrote, or you didn't get it, because I specifically address several of these points. -Witchblade/Powersword are intentionally seeing a meta nerf as part of the balance between powerswords and chainswords. More importantly, the interaction between basic weapons and light eldar strongly affect the HB and warlock, and the effective survival of the two classes is not being changed, only adjusted to handle the change. (2 out of 7 classes) -The FD, DR, and SS already have 100T, so they will probably not receive the health nerf. (5 out of 7 classes). Even though the SS's chainsword is getting the change, that's not actually relevant to his defense. (5 out of 7 classes) -DA and SH are directly involved with this change, so they will be affected by everything. (7 out of 7 classes, nailed it) Round #2, where I try to explain this again. Screw it, picture time. What's that? I already have one? Neat. That's why the 100 pen normalization is happening, why a boost to 100T for light eldar goes with it, and why we are discussing a health/armour nerf to go with it. It also means FIRE DRAGON, DARK REAPER, AND STRIKING SCORPION ARE NOT PART OF THIS EHP NERF. AM I REALLY GOING TO HAVE TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN LIGHT AND HEAVY ELDAR EVERY TIME? THIS IS WHY WE USE THE TERM LSM FOR SPACE MARINES, BECAUSE SO MANY OF YOU ARE UNABLE TO MAKE THE CASUAL CONNECTIONS NEEDED FOR CONVERSATION. What do I actually think about this whole thing? I disagree, I think it's a little short sighted and potentially screws bringing Dark Eldar into the game (small sliver of darklight that this will happen). However, being rooted in the past and afraid to change what's kind of working is not good, and that the devs are willing to shake things up is a good sign.
I would like to point out as well that any 80 pen weapon from LSM, CSM and Orkz is getting a buff but Im not seeing some call for a HP nerf there. What about the direct nerf to the EHP of the SS, FD and DR vs bolter carrying enemies? Why i don't think it's a good idea to nerf the Eldar or the DA/SH/Warlock/HB
I get that what I write is long, but if you aren't going to read it, then just don't reply. As above, there are two possible outcomes from this -The 100 pen normalization is meant to buff basic weapons, and so every faction's basic weapons are being equally buffed. The balance between the factions is maintained (even if the balance within a faction is changed). -The 100 pen normalization is really for the chainsword and everything else is meant to be kept the same. At that point everything receiving the buff receives a damage nerf. 38 becomes 34 for bolts, 20 becomes 18 for shuriken, orks have damage values all over the place but will get a 9% damage decrease. So from either of those two options, the increased damage across the board is intentional, or the damage doesn't change at all. The thing we are talking about is because light Eldar are already receiving full damage, an intentional buff doesn't affect them (and their high DPS makes them overly competitive), and the damage nerf still works in their favour (because now everyone is taking the same damage as them, so their high DPS again makes them overly competitive). By the way, there's some weird balance stuff with eldar. -Warlock can right now be equated with the HB, but with the upcoming support nerf just ignore him for now, too many variables. -The Howling Banshee deals the same damage as other ground melee. However, she is also faster than them (without a penalty like MoS). So she has less damage soak to compensate (ie less time exposed charging, less time needed to down). This is the reverse to what the stormshield does (slower advance, but longer TTK). Also a scream as a non-costed ability. -The DA has less toughness/armour than other faction's shooters. But the ASC/TLASC also have higher DPS than their counterparts. It works out that an equivalent shooter from another faction will down a DA slightly faster than the DA would down them. However, the DA is also faster, and is expected to use that speed to have better engagement control (ie being in the range that is best for him). -SH are a fun thing. They can't cap, so their non-costed ability is flying. And then it's like, "THIS POWER IS TOO POWERFUL!" So they also don't really have the damage that the DA has. However, their two special weapons offer advantages, either for CAUSING SEIZURES (cost effective against groups) or chewing through high toughness enemies (better for single enemies). Are they in a good place? Those who play them say underpowered, those who play against them say overpowered, so it's probably about right.
@Whitefox550 Please don't let them know giving basic weapons the pen and not the others is a nerf, i don't want to see a 130pen Vengeance without it costing a lot. (It's 20 higher than the base Stormbolter.)
I did read it, drop the 'tude. What I'm saying is that I'm afraid bE is just gonna jack up the pen and smack Eldar EHP. Lotta people here saying Eldar will kill faster while their TTK remains the same. MEANWHILE LSM and CSM and Orks will all kill each other faster with their basic weapons since they will also move from 80-100 pen, but all we've heard from bE (least to my knowledge) is a nerf to Eldar EHP. At first this sounds fine but someone that enjoys playing melee or support might not enjoy getting smacked 10% harder than they used to as well and not just against Eldar. Overall your damage nerf might make the most sense but to which weapons and how much? My other fear is that again SS, FD, and DR will also be dying faster as basic weaponry again will be moving from 80 to 100 pen.
I personally have no problem with Eldar getting a default 100 toughness, with Dragons, Scorpions and Reapers getting a higher one. Big Shootas still going to be the best anti Eldar weapon. I'm wondering if Orks will be getting any bonus toughness, as it currently comes from our armor, which LSM get the exact same increases from. (Ain't we'z supposed ta be tuffa?! Try takin' off wun o' dem uumie 'eds an' lesse 'em live! Deyz jus' uze der armer ta kompensate.) But LSM get way more armor AS WELL as the toughness. Hell, you can make a 155 toughness CSM with their armor and MoN. That's pretty much an Ork but not as much health. (Probably same effective health though i think, given CSM also have higher armor.)
If people are reading it then they aren't understanding it, which means the problem lies in my communication. Will ponder a solution (also trying to be less rambling). If you feel offended I am sorry, there's no actual emotion behind the statement and I'll work to make it less offensive for you. Your concern is expressed in those two points, either there is an intentional buff to basic weapons (their increased lethality is purposeful and accounted for against other classes), or there is no intended vertical buff and raw damage will be reduced. 80 pen to 100T is 9% damage reduction, the same as the numbers I listed. To keep things exactly the same just reduce as such for every weapon seeing change. Also room for adjustments if weapons are over/underperforming. SS/FD/DR are affected the same way as the other factions. If there's an intentional buff, it's intentional against them, and if there's a corresponding damage nerf (of the 9%) then they will see no difference.
