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Eldar are not OP, and you don’t need to git Gud

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JackleLantern, May 12, 2018.

  1. JackleLantern Recruit

    You need to stop being silly.

    Here are a few basic rules (geared towards SM, but the general rules apply to all teams):


    1) Merge into 2 squads. You will not hold three objectives unless you have mad guild members in the game, and even then, eldar are generally experienced enough to manage. Space marines are deadly together, but if the eldar can isolate you (much easier when you’re split between 4 squads) they will kill you quickly. You’ll never get cohesion back, and that’s to the eldar’s advantage.

    2) COMMUNICATE. Particularly, each squad should be on their own objective. Team leaders, talk, then mark the objective (q). Make sure that if you are on an objective, it’s the one that your teammates are on. Exception if squad leader has asked you to go assist another point.

    3) Prioritize ‘linked’ objectives. Frequently, there are two objectives that are close together and one that’s far from the others. If you hold the 2 that are nearby, it’ll be easier to help the other squad out if you need to. Generally, squad leaders should nominate 2-3 people tops to go assist to avoid the entire team rushing to the objective being capped. The third one doesn’t really matter, and you shouldn’t invest time in it. If your squad leader is... absent from communication, talk with your squad, get 1-2 others to come with you, and make sure everyone else stays put.

    4) Do not recap.

    5) Do not recap.

    6) Seriously, you will lose the game by recapping. Eldar are fast and they kill quickly. If you lose one objective, don’t bother recapping, you need everyone on defence holding the remaining objectives. No matter how fast they get the first cap, they can’t win without a second objective. Trading objectives is advantageous to the attacker, as they gain time and you... stop the bar for about 5 seconds. The literal minutes they gain out of the trade more than makes up for it. Not to mention it scatters the squads and breaks cohesion, and once you’re isolated, you’re screwed.

    Rules 4-6 include stealth caps. If you leave to cap, it means that your squad is going to be outnumbered if they are attacked. You are losing the game and being selfish. Don’t be that guy. As always, squad leader’s word is priority, and the only time you should break this rule is under command. Recapping is a desperation move, and should only happen if you’ve lost 2 objectives. Your goal is to stop yourself from getting to the point of having to do this, because then the game gets a lot more complicated.

    7) Go for the transports. Stopping the enemy from spawning on your objective is the difference between life and death. Make sure you have at least one dedicated tank hunter in your squad.

    8) Just as you should have tank hunters, you should have a healthy helping of healers. Eldar kill fast, but that’s irrelevant if you never get low enough health to be killed. Of course you will die sometimes, but you don’t want it to be frequent.

    9) Don’t over extend. You don’t need to kill them, you just need to stop them from getting inside. Chasing breaks cohesion and brings you into the open where you’re at a disadvantage due to mobility.

    Assaulting and other maps to come later. The basic rule though is don’t go through the front door; break to the sides and hit them from the side or behind. Try and take the high ground. I’ll flesh it out more later, but for now, keep these rules in mind and you might win a game or two against the Eldar and realize they aren’t OP at all. You just need to stop being silly.

  2. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    That pretty solid advice. Against everyone, not just Eldar but more important against us.

    I want to emphasize on 1). Eldar are really good at taking two objectives but really bad at taking the third.
    The first one is usually going to be steamrolled, LSM-pugs don't redeploy fast enough to prevent that so your goal should be hanging on to the second-one long enough so we need the third.
    For other factions, you usually want the third point to be the strongest but for Eldar that doesn't matter that much.
    If you all just stack at the point, we aren't getting it.

    Important for this: do not fight battles that are already lost! If the point is at 75% and you are not in the capture-room, there is no reason for you to go there. If the point has fallen, don't fight until you are killed, just move on and make sure the same does not happen again.

    Recapping is actually not generally a bad idea. However, it requires delicate timing and resource-allocation so if you are new enough to think Eldar are OP, you should probably not be making that call.

    A small addition for offense: It is very hard for us to take back a two-cap if the enemy defends it well. But they usually don't.
    In an unorganized team, a threecap is likely your only option because we will be doing enough backcapping to deny your victory, even if you got two points fast!

    After the threecap, settle for two or even one. The very hardest games almost always include a threecap for the enemy and then trading it in circles long enough to still win.
  3. Viking Vking Arkhona Vanguard

    also if you were just steam rolled by an eldar team, look at their team names. If they have a lot of <guild name> - something else, than they are probably a very good team, which means even a decently good pub group of your faction will 100% lose that match.

    there is no shame in losing against a guild stack.
  4. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    Most Eldar-teams around prime-time have multiple war-party-players, many of them running unmarked.
    The rest of us know each other well enough that you can generally assume that every rank 6 in a match is effectively part of a guildstack.
    GrazewoundZeroLow likes this.
  5. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    If you're defending and you are not on an AV loadout, you should stay in the cap room. And that means, you should be able to establish line of sight with the cap terminal within 1-2 seconds. If you can't watch the cap terminal, you're not defending.
    Why is watching the cap terminal so important? Once a cap goes up, your respawns will spawn further away than before. That will tip the war of attrition towards the attackers advantage.

    Further (and I know this can be hard on LSM side): Far too often, I see a defense getting lopsided because everyone is rushing to one side of the room to shoot some enemies, leaving their back woefully exposed. Don't be like a dog yapping at the first squirrel he sees skirting across the room. If others are already engaging, don't line up in second or third line to shoot over their shoulders (not to mention friendly fire). Turn around, watch the other direction so they don't get blindsided. Have some trust in your teammates to deal with the situation at hand.

    Also, don't run across entrances if you can avoid it. Often enough, there's a braced heavy laying fire down and you just BEG for a TK that way. Give your heavies their line of fire. Even better, watch said heavies back, he'll appreciate it and he's bound to attract some nasties sooner or later.
  6. JackleLantern Recruit

    The issue I have with it is

    1) if you can stop the second cap with proper defence, it becomes unnecessary (which is why newbies should never do it). As you mentioned, Eldar will steamroll the first objective, but if there’s proper defence, they have issue with 2. Particularly if rule 3 is abided.

    2) Most people going to recap don’t talk or check in. They go for the recap without seeing whether the current objectives are being held properly and if it’s a tight enough defence to allow for it. Once the other team gets a second cap, you need to fall back on rule 2 and figure out the strategy from that point, which frequently involves a recap unless you can turtle with enough time to spare. At that point, trading becomes a viable strategy, as do recaps, but the best way to win against eldar is not to let them get money on the clock. Y’all are always more skilled than us, so the more strategizing and communicating we have to do, the less likely we are to win.

    Thanks for the offensive advice! I’ll be sure to include it.
  7. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    Another important thing that many seem to forget: Contested points do not tick. I've won domination maps with the opposing team holding all three points, yet they lost because we kept contesting the points. This was hair's breadth on the bar but it worked. If you are in a 2 vs 1 points situation with the last remaining point still giving time, stalling the bar with contesting until it becomes necessary for the attacking team to get the third point is a valid option. Important is that the majority of your team, especially the inexperienced players, turtle at the last point with time on it and only a few experienced commandos go for contesting. The problem here is, when the youngsters see the cap going up, they're like dogs who see a car approach up the street and they go "WOOF WOOF, chase car, WOOF!" (and yes, the space wolf allusion is fitting here) and run off to said point. Discipline is a big factor and that is precisely where Eldar and LSM differ (most of the time) in the matches that I play.

    Rule of thumb for bar progress and points held: 5 mins with two points stable gives half the bar.
  8. Lucius Vinicius JojoKasei Arkhona Vanguard

    It is certainly possible to keep them up on their toes by contesting the lost points as defender. At the very least, it keeps part of the enemy forces from the third point. BUT you should never ever send more than 2 or 3 people off. For efficiency, make a small tem of those and let them attack the fallen points quickly after another. Works well enough.
  9. Most effective ways to fight Eldar are not realistic with an average team. I wish they were...
  10. Lerdoc Katitof Well-Known Member

    Chaos seem to have no problems.

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