Of course the Dire Avenger isn't an AV class, you have the firedragon, a class dedicated to AV, which does 100x better at the role than other factions. If DA and FD both were AV there would be zero vehicles used on levels against eldar. Eldar run specialist roles, that's just how they are.

Once again, eldar aren't built to go toe-to-toe against hulkier units. Their tactics, both here and in the lore, are hit and run. There's a reason you're faster than any other unit save a CSM with Slaanesh (and even then, that's an individual build, not a team), and have a smaller hitbox than any other faction. Use that to your advantage and you will be the bane of other players.

Every faction has problems like this. "Tac On A/B/C" is a common chat on LSM and CSM. And showing up with just tacs when facing Eldar Melee, vehicles bombarding through windows, etc. sucks too. As its a team game, team balance is a major part of the communication (also on your squad list you can see what classes others in your squad are running, and if you're sticking with your squad, it shouldn't matter what non-squadies are running).

While I don't think that the double tax is fair, it doesn't seem to inhibit the win-ratio (see previous post). And yes, eldar need access to mods. In general we just need a huge dump of mods, even if they don't have accompanying graphics.

Thanks for the strawman. Because saying that the faction that has the highest win-ratio is doing ok is like saying a guy with broken legs is fine winning a race. Well stated.


I'm all for eldar getting more equipment. I have no problem with them getting nice things like the rest of us. In fact I personally feel that Eldar get the least dev love (did you see the "skull cosmetics" from the skulls campaign!?!). But when you're winning more often than losing with your 'nerf darts and kneepads' against all other factions, we start to question just how much of a nerf dart you're using.

Nope, nope and nope. None of these are perfect. You just have to learn how to play against Eldar. Not OP just different. They're faster, but have lower armor/hp.

You should really stop making a fool of yourself.

It all comes down to several key points:
-Inter-Faction balance is good, intra-faction not so much
-Eldar have a ton of underperforming gear and a few overperforming choices to compensate that players are forced to use.
-Eldar amplify the enemies skill (not so much their own), hence, in most scenarios, they either stomp or get stomped. An uncoordinated enemy team will do much worse against Eldar than even usual, and a coordinated one will have a very easy time respectively.
-Most Eldar classes are One-trick Ponies in one way or another, which makes them very strong against everyone who is not willing to adapt, but very easy to counter to those, who are.

Just gotta stop you there. Your assumption that making a target smaller doesn't affect the ability to hit it is ridiculous. If that's the case then there's no problem dropping the ork head hitbox to 1 pixel. Because anyone who's not a "bad player" shouldn't have a problem because its not like "aiming was hard." Yes, to a skilled player the decreased hitbox is less of a problem than to a noob. However, you're not only playing against skilled players (especially if you're in an LSM fight). You could just as easily argue that if you're such a good player, your ADAD patters should be good enough to counter others regardless of your hitbox.

Make Fire Dragons cap is the real fix

Fire Dragon is like the Avenger but flat out better so that's the change I prefer, Fusion guns are just that much more effective than ASC's to me after being forced to main the class for half a year

Interesting solution. I'd like to see that on the testing servers.
I worry that it would lead to no-one playing the DA (kinda like back when the Apothecary was so much better than the Tac that everyone was playing Apoth except the 3 people smart enough to know they needed Tac's to win), but none-the-less it would be fun to see how that plays out on the testing server. Especially if the choice was "double melta bombs OR a key to cap" since that would force a choice, rather than just making double-meltas the obvious one.

It's comments like this that get LSM/CSM/Ork players made fun of. If Eldar players can go to another faction and win with them then clearly you need to look at your own playing ability.

100 percent. I've said it before, but myself and many other eldar mains play other factions and walk away on top of the lists in terms of points, kills etc. I've walked into matches as a rank one LSM, alongside LSM guilds, with no upgrades or advancements yet, special gear etc, and still came out first place with 30 kills.....vs eldar included. This is repeated by many players I know who main eldar.

What does this have to do with anything? Any Tact class can kill a LSM ground assault easily. The metric is Tact vs Tact.

Ah yes, the classic "But go flank" excuse. As if it wouldn't be better to flank with a hulkier unit that won't go down the moment anyone turns around. As if arriving an extra second earlier matters if you lose the duel.

Also It's funny you mention it. I can make a Slaneshi Tact that totally outclasses a DA in every possible way.

I don't think you quite understood what I was getting at.

When we need a Tact on LSM, I simply go "Ok sure" and change. Because while my Tact is a bit inferior to my Apoth in every way, it's on equal footing or better than other Tacts and will hold his weight. I don't need babysitting and hand-holding when I'm on my way to the point as a Tact. I do as a DA.

While other factions have to "Give up Melee/Healing to play a Tact", Eldar have to "Give up Melee/Healing to play a gimped Tact".

Cut down on you rhetoric a little. I'm not saying that there isn't a point where smaller hitboxes are an obvious problem.

What I'm saying is that we're not at that point by a longshot. Eldar frame isn't exactly more difficult to hit than a LSM. It's not a significant reduction in hitbox to warrant the current vile thrown our way for it.

Veteran players certainly have absolutely no problem hitting Eldar. Which basically means that at high level play, Eldar's hitbox advantage is practically null. At this point, only raw TTK numbers matter.

It's the same argument we have for the Shoota only in reverse. The Shoota is objectively better than the Bolter once you learn to compensate for the recoil. Once you are not wildly missing your shots, only DPS and EHP matters.

That was actually intended.

We're winning because the only players that still play Eldar are diehard veterans. It's pretty much a requirement to stick to Eldar, because of the neglect and constant use of crutches.

We're at the point where even with our broken leg, we're so good at using our freaking crutches we're beating the obese talking-while running man that is the LSM playerbase in a race.

And that is the thing. People see us do well with our crutches and go "But you won with those crutches, I don't feel like it's fair that you get your leg fixed". Like really? You think I wouldn't do away with this crutches if I could just walk with my two legs instead?

Take your post for example. Up there you basically implied that "DA sucking at AI is ok because FD is excellent at AV". "Ugh" is the only thing that came to my mind.

And that is basically the same Eldar feel for everything

• People are ok that our only capping class sucks because the others are marginally better
• People are ok that the Falcon is useless because we can roadkill.
• People are ok that we only get Sword access because our Melee is not totally crippled in this sword-only era.
• People are ok that MM royaly screws us over because we typically have High-rank players.
• People are ok that our animations are broken because lag makes up for them.
• People are ok that smaller hitboxes are meaningless against vet because we often face newbs.
• People are ok that we don't have a Red tier armor because we're supposed to be weak (Despite it being weaker than gold armor. No for real that was the argument).

It's a shitty situation. Because people take "Doing well" as an indicator that the faction doesn't need improvement. Without realizing that there are so many things that are just completely frustrating to do when playing as Eldar.

Look at this thread and see for yourself. Everyone is citing "But your winrates!" without taking into account the average Eldar player rank and experience.

ya, my third match as a CSM traitor assault and I'm already topping the scoreboard without even using a bolter, only with my assault traitor. and that's because of personal preference, because I could easily be always #1 in the scoreboard if I wanted to apparently lol