Sorry to beat the dead horse, but the issue just keeps cropping up. The bash has not worked well since its inception and that is a serious problem. If a third of the entire system is broken then the entire system crumbles. As it stands, the bash does little to help ranged characters. I'd also argue that many melee specialists forego the bash in order to simply out-clang their opponent for that sweet 3-4 second stun from durability loss. Experienced players know the bash is not a guaranteed punish to a light attack and will try to avoid using it as much as possible. Now, I have faith that the devs have some smart people and are working on a fix to the problem of the d.bash stun not applying, but I propose that we forget about that solution altogether. Leave the kick as is--a momentary stagger that deals minimal damage to the opponent (meaning the defending player cannot followup with an attack). In exchange, the defending player casting the bash will clang as though they are wielding a weapon 1-tier higher than what they are wielding now. Why does this solve the problem? Light attack spam against ranged players will be reduced because there will be a threat that if they repeatedly hit a bash their weapon will break. And as we all know, empty durability is essentially death due to the length of the stun. Additionally, this adds a real, avoidable punish to the bash that cannot be prevented by simply mashing the spacebar. This is the one thing the current system lacks, and I don't see it being radically changed any other way. Now, there may be additional tweaks needed to truly make this change work, but I feel it would be a step toward the right direction, giving all players a reason to use a mechanic that is almost ignored by melee specialists and plain doesn't work for everyone else.
Dbash, right now, isn't a very good maneuver. It traps you in a slow animation with a pathetic lunge distance and very weak damage (I'm actually not sure if it does damage). While quick attack spamming, especially with quick weapons, has good ranged lunging every half second. They're lunging all over the place like sonic with a chainsword. Should also note that quick attacks always do 80% of a power attack. Here's my suggestion: 1) Reduce quick attack lunge distance by 30-40%. Or make lunge distance dependent on weapon speed, so quick weapons lunge shorter than slow-swinging weapons. 2) Change the way Dbash works. Instead of the enemy just clanging on a dbasher (and still having time to roll away) make the dbash complete its animation and stun immediately. That way it would work like a counter attack (like Marth's counter in super smash bros.). ALSO, increase its lunge distance. Make those 2 changes (and make sure it actually works) and I think we'll have a good solid melee system. e: Oh and #3: NO ONE gets to dodge or roll or do ANYTHING while stunned. There is no get-out-of-jail-free card for anyone here. I'm pretty sure it's a bug but I see like every JPA and their uncles just flying away after legitimately being stunned. Just throws a big wrench in the whole system and needs to not be a thing.
The problem with 1 is that ranged characters used to simply backpeddle out of melee fairly easily. It's not great you do travel so far, but if they reduce it, reduce it in small increments. Tacticals and equivalents should fight in melee when they're in melee distance--it's actually more efficient than gunning someone down. They simply need to be competitive in melee again against melee specialists. As for #2, many people have suggested this in the past. It just seems that the devs are not willing to fundamentally change the bash for whatever reason--time, money, animations, etc. I would love an entire bash rework, but it hasn't happened up to this point. That leads me to conclude that what I suggested is probably the best compromise people with this stance will get.
I lile Godking's original suggestion of breaking attacker's durability on dbash clangs. As it stands now, as a knife wielder, you can successfully dbash against a rmb spammer but all it will do is buy you time until your weapon breaks. If you're winning the latency war, you can pop in 1 knife swing after a successful dbash, but if you're laggier, then that post dbash fast attack is gonna clang and wreak your knife quicker. As an additional suggestion to the rmb spam lunge problem I'd suggest making the lunge only possible out of sprint. The attacker would need to decide if he needs to microsprint then rmb or rmb right away, essentially requiring the attacker to judge distance and opponent flight. Spamming rmb and leaping around looks ridiculous and is a lame mechanic. I'd also suggest eliminating lockon so I must be a heretic.
1-tier higher? Aren't powerswords 2 tiers higher than knives? And who uses chainswords when powerswords are better in every way?
No, teirs are knives/swords/axes-mauls-clubs/fist. Being a power weapon affords you no advantage except additional penetration. Melee is heavily favored right now but I remember in the not too distant past where ranged could simply d-bash melee, evade backwards and then back-peddle and shoot down the melee unit. Trust me what was an equally frustrating situation. I'm sure it's a difficult thing to balance and it's no wonder they have not gotten it down pat yet.
Well, sprint + melee is a dedicated lunge that is meant to cover more distance--unless they removed it and I'm unaware. The lunge that Alb refers to swing distance with every light attack. You can easily keep up with a sprinting opponent by mashing RMB and snaring them, effectively cutting off disengagements in melee. But as was pointed out, there was an old issue with ranged players abusing the roll as a kiting tool instead of a dodge or disengage. You're also not the only one who wants the lock gone. I used to be one of those people, but the melee in this game is a bit too static. I tend to use the lock-on if the circumstance calls for it or the latency is pretty bad. It's not too clear anymore, but swords were all tier-2 last I checked. Power fists and klaws are Tier 4 (top tier) and will clang favorably against pretty much everything. Honestly, I'd rather not have the bash focus around the durability meta because I am diametrically opposed to long stuns like we have now, but it seems to be the only way to easily--and I say this with a whopping tablespoon of salt--correct a longstanding issue. The idea isn't to make melee powerless, but to punish them correctly in the system while also making them think more about their actions.
