So there's a delemia I see in the future brewing, and it has to deal with the tanks in the game. This does not include the light vehicles such as land speeders and Eldar Vypers. Below is a reference to all the tanks that are probably going to be in for launch. The argument though is just how crazy this balancing game is going to be considering all the factors. Chief among them is how the Orks are going to remain relevant, and how the other factions are going to keep the pace with what the Eldar have to offer in terms of tanks that are probably going to be some of the most powerful things you've likely never heard of. A. Most "Battle" tanks are crewed by 5 people. B. Eldar tanks are crewed by no more than 2 people - freeing the others to make a difference on the battlefield, or allowing the Eldar to pull more tanks if tanks are tied to a personal resource. C. Eldar tanks have by far the best range / outright strength of firepower in the game. D. Eldar tanks have by far the best mobility in the game. E. Eldar front armor is buffed by a shield. Everything other than a dedicated transport has Predator armor in front, which can be turned to face an enemy at all times due to skimming across the ground. According to the Lore and TT Rules: Chaos and Space Marines Land Raider Insane amounts of armor and weaponry. Heavy guns plus incredible assault/defensive weaponry capabilities. Depending on how many guns the thing has: Crew of 5-7 plus transport. Predators: Medium Armor, 2 Side Sponsors, 1 Defensive Weapon, 2 variants of Medium Anti-Infantry, and 1 extremely hard hitting anti-vehicle Main weapon. Middle of the road speed. Crew of 5. Rhino's: Fast, lightly armored APC with 1 defensive weapon and a missile launcher upgrade for Chaos Crew 2 + passengers. LSM Razorback's Fast lightly armored limited APC with either anti-infantry or anti-vehicle capabilities. Crew 2 + passengers. Drop Pods Deep Strike from Space! No crew. Vindicator 2 Crew Seige Engine with a massive blast weapon that can one hit just about everything within its tiny range. It's got insane armor in the front. Thunderhawks Hopefully not playable in the game (they shouldn't be, as they are fliers), but offer more deep strike capabilities to SM's. Is extremely tough and an awesome array of weaponry. Better not have a crew - it shouldn't be playable at launch. Orks Trukks - Ramshackle technicals ready to blow up before any Ork steps inside. 2 crew. Looted Tank - Leman Russ made Orky. heavy, noisy, powerful. Crew of 5 - should be easy to get with F2W. Very powerful, extremely tough in front. Stat's wise, they steamroll over Predators. Battlewagon - Sorta the rough equivalent to the SM Land Raider. Crew numbers ?? Squiggoth - A much better equivalent to the SM Land Raider and possibly the Vindicator - I can definitely see on bashing down a wall or gate. Much crew needed. Many enemies crushed. Ork Submersible - Waterbound craft that can carry impressive weaponry and transport a large number of Orks. Ork "Drillmersible": Only seen them in the SM campaign. Underground deep striking transports. Seem pretty useful actually. Eldar Tanks: Every Eldar tank is fast, can move in virtually any direction, ignores all terrain, can mother f'ing fly, and has some sort of shield in its front that deflects oncoming fire. Wave Serpent: 1 Crew (Who is also a gunner) + Transport + Crazy weapons. Falcon Grav Tank: 2 Crew + Transport + INSANE WEAPONS Fire Prism: 2 Crew - INSANE-IER WEAPON Warp Hunter: 2 Crew - IN THE NAME OF THE HOLY EMPEROR WHAT IS THAT WEAPON?!
Since Mymeara didn't won the vote for the 5th Eldar sub-faction you don't have to fear at least the Warp Hunter as it's the rarest Eldar Tank based on the Falcon and only Craftworld Mymeara has an unusally large amount of these ^^ What I am wondering is, how fast the Eldar vehicles will be...compared to the current Rhino speed they will be uncontrollable fast. You forgot the Whirlwind for SM and the Night Spinner for Eldar. I think both would be a nice addition when the game hits open world and people start to zerg around. Just let the Night Spinners weave an invisible monomolecular net and you have that zerg cut in bits and pieces haha. But they are not currently on the development list...
Battlewagons are more main battle tanks of the orks just like the looted tanks. It can transport a few people but it's mainly used as a heavy assault vehicle. As far as crew goes it's usually 3-4 gunners , 1 loader, 1 driver and since EC won't have loaders I could see just 4 gunners and a driver. It's got a main battle cannon + 3-4 heavy weapons which range from big shootas to rokkit launchas. Honestly hope they decide to use this as the orks main battle tank and allow us to customize the type of weapons we have on it.
I'm a bit lazy to find the Twitch it was mentioned, but the Warp Hunter at least was confirmed as the Vindicator equivalent. Since one blows open giant holes in fortifications and the other essentially revokes their existence, their weaponry achieves the same effect, just in different ways. The speed will indeed be an interesting factor. Especially with the movement speed of Eldar infantry.
This is a Multiplayer TPS, not the TT, thus Eldar's tanks will be balanced. They will be based on the lore, but not exact copy. So some of the features are out of the window including: 1. Flying - This won't be possible until we have aircraft in the game. 2. Lore firepower - They will be strong, but not like how the fluff presents them. 3. Lore speed and maneuverability - They will be able to skim and probably more maneuverable than Predator, but don't expect them to dodge bullets in slow motion and solo 3, 4 tanks alone. 4. Shield - Temporary? Yes. Permanent? No.
Yes, but the smaller crew size for maximum effectiveness is a considerable advantage. Hmm interesting.
I've been thinking about such issues myself. The devs have already stated that the current Rhino's we see in game are "basic". Now, background-wise, sure the wave serpent, falcon, fire prism and death weaver only have 2 people on board. My prediction however, is that in-game, they will have 3. Let's suppose you're piloting a wave serpent. WASD to move the thing I presume, because it can strafe I'd expect. Mouse to turn. How do you aim the shuricen cannon below? Either you switch controls where WASD is turning the tank and aim with mouse, no sidestrafe, or you switch controls to aim with mouse, no turning the cannon, or you aim by aiming the hovertank. (I know you could use 6 buttons...) I think 3 players is the easiest solution, and one that will give some balance. A more correct comparison to the wave serpent would be the Razorback for loyalist marines. Sure, wave serpent > Razorback, but then the wave serpent would cost more.. leading to outnumbered wave serpents. In the table top the bottom shuricen cannon is a threat to every light-medium vehicle, better than a heavy bolter, but that might not be the case in-game. Leading to pretty comparable levels of firepower. Now: Eldar are missing a "Rhino" equivalent. If needed, the solution to that is the Venom/Starweaver. Falcon Grav tank vs Predator: The predator has better front armor; the falcon has better side armor. A falcon grav tank flanks a predator destructor: byebye mr Predator, probably. A falcon grav tank frontally attacks a predator annihilator: 1 twin-linked lascannon, 2 lascannon sponsons and AV13 vs 1 Pulse laser, 1.. hopefully Brightlance or Eldar Missile launcher, and AV12. Bottom shuricen cannon useless. If it is a missile launcher, the predator has stronger weapons vs an opponent with less armor. If it is a brightlance, the eldar tank has 1 shot equivalent to a lascannon, but with less range.. and still the predator has superior armor vs the Pulse laser. ADVANTAGE: PREDATOR. * (* Ignoring things like cover, speed, and yes, the holofields. But don't dismiss the predator as crap please, it should be pretty decent. See the first series of Dawn of War; the Predator basically owned the Falcon. I'd like to see falcons more powerful in-game myself..but you can't have the 2 probably biggest factions having crap tanks either. Predator balance for gameplay: good front armor, don't get flanked. ) The insane weapons: see "Grav-weapons"; see wraithguard weapons,... Sorry, but a single high S small blast impresses no-one anymore; long range plasma cannon... Sure, the versatility is nice. But what if you miss the one shot, or the weapon is knocked out? Also: not that impressive vs big mean monsters with multiple wounds, maybe an invulnerable save.. A. Predator annihilator is fine with 4 people: if you need the stormbolter a sponson gunner swaps seats. B. See above: if I were a dev; I'd make eldar tanks 3-person crewed. C. Best range? Part of the firepower are the underslung shuricen cannons, which have.. half the range of an autocannon. The Brightlance is also outranged by autocannons, missile launchers and lascannons. If you meant wide range of weaponry: scatter lasers, shuricen cannon and star cannon: all 3 are anti-infantry/ anti-light-to-medium vehicle. The only tank weapon able to really threaten a leman russ or a land raider is the brightlance. Honestly, I'd take the 3-lascannon predator firepower wise; by math it is superior vs a landraider than the brightlance-falcon in terms of firepower; the fire prism matches it. D. Agreed* * Dark eldar, flyers,.. E: not quite predator armor? Dreadnought armor .
Most likely this will be countered by making the maximum effectiveness of an Eldar tank lower than that of an Ork/Marine one. Most likely they will get weapons that are slightly more powerful individually than the other factions, but since they have less gunners the other vehicles will be bigger powerhouses once fully manned. This is not how it is on the tabletop, but they'll make it so in the game, it's an easy and logical way of balancing. It'll make Eldar vehicles easier to man (especially with their lower playerbase) and easier to get into position, while the other factions will be able to get more total firepower for less expended resources.
The thing about Orks thou, is that they can loot anyfing. Really, the lore gives the Orks basically limitless possibilities. Look at the Short Stories, they basically have a rolling pirate ship featured. I think the Orks should be able to have an Orky version of any other factions' vehicles, looted predator makes more sense here because there's going to be a bunch of destroyed Predators lying around and 0 Lemun Russ'. Overall, I think Ork vehicles should be pretty damn customizable.
They won't be balanced 1 to 1. It's perfectly plausible that Eldar will have more reliance on vehicles considering shuriken is lower ranged and they have no Jump melee. The balance is measured across the Faction rather than any one vehicle or class alone. They won't be priced 1 to 1. Whichever vehicle is dominant will cost more and likely have a longer cooldown. Fewer but more powerful vehicles puts a real premium on that Faction's intelligent deployment and use. They'll have different counters. The Eldar don't necessarily have the same AV as Mahreens, though Reapers will likely be good. A little imbalance in the tank hunting lineup allows for more imbalance between the vehicles themselves. Eldar vehicles are going to stay 2-man. Brent has repeated that a couple of times now. But as was said, a 2-man Pred Annihilator is fairly formidable too, even before we talk about the other balance options ^ I suggested a couple of other minor things elsewhere e.g pilot's armaments don't have a great range of rotation, they have to control the vehicle's movement at the same time (ala Covenant), their troops can only embark/disembark from the rear etc. There are a lot of other tweaks that could keep them balanced.
