1. [sarcasm activated] As an Eldar, I support the proposed mechanic to not only allow team killing but to encourage it among CSM & Orks. Yes, do the work for us in reducing your numbers during battles. I wouldn't even have to confirm kills after downing someone. The Chaos/Ork crazies will do it for me because even while stabbing their teammate through the chest with a sword they'll think they're helping. I bet they wouldn't even start revenge killing each other too because everybody likes dying over being back in the fight. But wait it gets better! New players would see that Eldar aren't team killing each other so they'd join us. Splendid! Wait LSM aren't either and they don't need the population boost. [sarcasm deactivated] If you allow team killing then sabotage + griefing & trolling + infighting will run rampant. If you encourage team killing then nobody will play that faction because organization would fall apart. Also players can move while downed. They should never feel that moving toward their teammates would be a bad thing. Nor should a player ever think "I better not be with my team or they'll just finish me off." Do you really want to be that CSM/Ork who aids in the defeat of your faction? Doesn't matter if there's a buff attached. It's just a personal temporary one that still results in reducing your numbers. Good luck at the objective when you're outnumbered. Don't worry though, I'm sure the enemy team will thank you for your contribution to their efforts over yours (actually they'll just kill you like you did your teammate(s)). Why would a reduced spawn timer be better than getting a teammate back in the fight right there to help in whatever you and your team are fighting for? How would the executed player feel if they're executed instead of picked up? Then by extent what do onlookers think? (Onlookers being new players, experienced players, the executed teammates' friend(s), and your friends er I mean the enemy. Wait let's include actual friends too. Note that everyone isn't always on the same page in battles.) Who would risk executing a friendly in an animation which leaves them vulnerable? Why execute a friendly when there are enemies to kill/objectives to take? Squad leaders give passive aura buffs. It's better to have them up and around. How is denying a kill better than getting the downed player back up in the fight with you? Like against the player(s) that downed them in the first place. ----------- TLDR: Eternal Crusade is a teamplay game, team killing is not teamplay. Helping your team and playing as a team is good. Allowing and encouraging team killing is bad. Just imagine yourself as the executed player and your current enemies to know why. If you still don't understand then go start killing your team in other games to see how it works out for you and them (singleplayer games don't count).
1. For any other faction in any other game, I wouldn't even consider allowing players to execute their allies - but this is a w40k MMO, and this is Chaos we're talking about (I'm entirely opposed to it for Orks though). I think the distinction I'm seeing though is this, for lesser Chaos units - if a heretic or something were wounded - I'd have no quarrel at all with a CSM killing them just to watch the blood spray. CSM though, despite their fanatical devotion to Chaos - are still SM - they still function effectively as a squad, they still sweep and clear and cover one another - all of these things are still indicative of a high degree of brotherhood and teamwork. Some of the CSM are thousands of years old too, they clearly have a socialized healthcare plan - and even more so than the SM themselves - the CSM are scared with countless serious wounds: arguably Chaos is better about recovering troops than the SM themselves. Now, with that said - I see two further points. First, Chaos in this game isn't Undivided it's specific chapters, possibly worshiping different Chaos gods - but more notably - most of the Chaos chapters are embittered rivals. Two of the chapters in the game - Alpha Legion and Word Bearers - while sometimes united under Abaddon - generally would prefer one another dead: maybe not to the point of open war, but could I see a Word Bearer - having just saved a downed member of the Alpha Legion from an Assault Marine - turn not to the Assault Marine, but to the Alpha and execute his Chaos-kin for being so weak as to be downed by an agent of the corpse-emperor? Hell yes - that Alpha is getting a chainsword to the back of the neck while the crawling Assault Marine watches in confusion at Chaos's depravity. If a Word Bearer were in the position of the Alpha though - while perhaps not helping them up if there were any hint of things to kill nearby - they wouldn't just execute their battle brother: they might let them crawl around and pick up their own entrails - and see if they crawl back to the drop-ship on their own - but killing them seems out of character. Except perhaps, for a Khornate Berserker. So I like the idea of Aspiring Sorcerers running around fleshcrafting the wounded back to a fighting-state - but Chaos shouldn't be able to execute their own in general - more likely if you wanted to RP better - just don't even allow Raptors to help their fallen: they have killing to do - even when that killing would probably be more effective if they took two seconds to get their Havoc back into overwatch. Traitors and Havocs, being SMs once, would still have the tactical foresight to see the advantage in having an ally versus not having an ally. Edit: As for Orks, it would probably be a similar distinction - some units would step right over their perfectly recoverable kin to go shoot humies. In general though - while the Orks do love war and dakka - they are pretty collectivist. They aren't blood-crazed and they have a Waaagh to attend: this isn't in-fighting. I like the idea of just kicking your downed Ork allies to bring them back to fighting condition - maybe stab 'em lightly - a kind of, "If you want to stop being stabbed, you have to stand back up" playfulness to it.
OP, You're also forgetting the fact that the mechanic of helping people back up effectively instantly gets them back into the fight. So not only is a major grief issue, but it's also a major balance issue because even if you instantly respawned somewhere, its not right there, which means the guy who just got griefed, has to walk all the way back to the action while every single other faction in the game can get back up on the front line. So the loyalists (for example) turtling someplace on a really important spawn point are going to constantly get each other up, while the CSM's are: Trolling each other - degrading team play and faction community. Killing each other - degrading the faction's effectiveness in any given mission. Walking back to the action getting more and more frustrated all the time. So unless somebody gets executed by a friendly and then somehow magically respawns right where they died, I see this being a way to kill a faction, not make it more lore friendly.
I do love the idea, but this isn't strictly a role playing game. It would be very tough to balance something like this.
No just no. What you want to do is... well I dont know what you want to do because even in a RPG you wouldnt keep a group together long if you kept gakking them every session. ah! find a Paranoia game get your fix of TKing that way.
1. Gods no. You're greatly exaggerating our nature, Chaos Marines don't go around executing our own wounded, what you're saying and trying to achomplish here is mostly rubish. Even if a chaos marine looks down on his brother who was weak enough to get wounded he wouldn't *blam* him off handedly in the middle of a battle, he's just going to leave him their to bleed out and choke on their own blood. Straight up executing a wounded brother would be a rare occurance, it would be like if the Warlord has been grievously wounded and his Second-in-command finds him and siezes the opportunity to get a field promotion. We're not going to see Random Word Bearer A executing Random Word Bearer B just because one of them got injured. So, it's not really lore accurate plus it's a retarded mechanic that would only encourage griefing. Only an outsider would think this is a good idea. 2. Hopefully they'll add in more destructable environments as we go on, tank mechanics themselves are a work in progress so their movement will get better.
There is no point in adding this mechanic: If there is no harm, there is no point in treason and sacrifice. You just killed a team-mate! Big deal! He's back in 10 seconds! What exactly did your team sacrifice in this situation to be worthy of a bonus?
The Chaos faction despise weakness, but they aren't blithering idiots who waste geneseed by executing their own troops, nor is it out of character to help the wounded as any Chaos Warband will have medbays and the like on standby for that sort of thing. Chaos is still an army, not a ragtag mob. Unless you're Abaddon in Battlefield Gothic anyway.
How exactly do you see this as contributing to the game? If anything, I could see a case where only warlock-sorcerer-apothecary-painboy can get downed people back up. This is pretty much what planetside 2 does, games like battlefield have the defibrillator you need to have to help a downed player, etc. Or, how about: aiding a downed player consumes a heal stim. That means you'd need to have some in inventory, and be willing to spend them. Or let an apothecary-.. do it. Could be pretty funny animation wise for the Orks: "lift downed ork with one hand -Oi! There's still humies to stomp ya git! - Smashes needle into ork". Or "puts needle in gun barrel. Aims -hold still now, hurhur- BLAM!" vs Space Marine "Live on Brother. Your crusade is not over yet" Chaos, Eldar: well, someone else can come up with something..
