This, nobody is saying "OMG p2w this game sucks!", what we are saying is, no matter how many times you say it, a vyper/attack bike is not just cooler looking than a rhino or 2 bikes, it brings more gameplay styles to the table and is locked to pre-orders, everyone complained (and with good reason) when Metro 2034 put the Ranger mode as pre-order exclusive and attack bikes are just the same.
i fink itz kewl ta show da f2w gitz a exclusive warbuggy. i never fought of dem as p2w more like a fun fing. Dey dont sound dat overpowered ta me given dat dey have almost no armor! besides iz a greedy flash git so iz want sumfing ta brag about to da ouvva boyz when we get dropped down wiff da Roks.
Really. Not even a month since they make the switch to cosmetic only, and they've already backed up on the single largest goddamn thing players were complaining about. I'm not going to lie this pisses the hell out of me. You can't say "cosmetic only" and then pull a "oh, except this" a week later and expect that to be ok. Or are the devs planning to announce SOE as the publisher soon? When I talk about EC anywhere else, the first complaint that gets brought up is that there's a vehicle for sale in the store. And for eldar and orks, they're iconic units that have been available by default in every game where you can play as those races. Fast light assault vehicles with 360˚ of attack using anti tank heavy weapons are completely incomparable to bikes and skeptical players know it. But the negative consequences of this aren't just restricted to outside-forum backlash, as if these kinds of decisions won't actually matter at all in the game itself. What ever happened to the principle of this kind of thing, that you shouldn't nickel and dime players for a complete gameplay experience? That pre-orders shouldn't be used as extortion to avoid poor reviews? That iconic and well-loved parts of an IP shouldn't be levers to gouge as much money out of your fanbase as possible? I expected better of this dev team.
I wonder why the calls for cosmetic only? I'm going to be honest why would I pay for pixels that change my look when I can get the same look in game. Now I'm going to be honest here, ive bought (or set aside for when check out is available) most of the stuff in the store. And I all honestly I probably wont use most of it, I mean really just maybe one day ill use the sorcerer axe but I hate casters and then theres the necrothium, but ive never been one to heal. I want to provide extra founding but of course I want something in return, I can see how expensive it can be to make a game from scratch. Believe me without the extra help we will get barebones release date with no expantions set for later dates, because the money to keep the programmers working wont be there. I would first off get my money back for the extra stuff and only pay 40 for the game. I mean really why spend more if everything can be gotten ingame period. The concept is you help out and get a little something in return, if not just buy the regular game or f2p and guarantee once the money does run out it will THEN become pay to win in a bad way just to keep the project afloat. Instead of complaining and nit picking every thing why not ask for more content? Everyone is complaining about 2 seater bikes and both LSM/ CSM have hover bikes in their lore. Why not ask for those only ingame through some sort of achievement and add content to the game instead of trying to take content out.
What I thought of these was that they're bikes with guns. Light armor bikes and driver+gunner can be shot off. Fun but meh. Dependent on terrain to be a smooth ride to be effective with forward facing cone arc line of fire guns. One of the guns is the driver and is dependent on changing driving direction to aim so can only aim at something straight ahead. Which from my experience in other games is very awkward to reliably aim which could also effect your gunners aim. Though the ork one doesn't have a driver gun. Maybe they shoot with their gun or the vehicle has a gun "attached" to it for the driver to automatically use? That's lame to me either way. So little to no movement for better aiming results in they're going to get shot up. Lots of movement to avoid getting shot up results in difficulty to hit targets but suppresses. Lots of guns shooting at them results in heavily damaged vehicle and dead crew. A better vehicle showing up results in "lol was there really ever a bike there? All I see is scrap!" Someone with melee weapon hitting the crew as they drive by cavalry charge style results in someone being awesome. Will bike drivers be able to use 1-handed melee weapons while driving? If so, I look forward to taking part in community jousting matches. Then crusaders brought up it is Founder Only, a fact which eluded me because sometimes that happens. My common sense sometimes goes on the fritz lol. Solution has already been said early on in this thread. Make default in-game variant and have a cooler cosmetic version in RTS. Such as sub-faction specific versions. Maybe even have the 2 seat option upgrade to the bikes in character progression trees. The LSM image example Joram gave is of course cool but changes the vision for second gun firing arc from the original implementation (the side car currently in RTS). However the change would fit with the position of the secondary guns the other factions have so I say scrap the LSM sidecar and change it to the other bike....Though maybe keep it for Space Wolves. Google search "bike sidecar dog" to see why. lol.
Why don't you ask Valve? Someone's been paying them for a lot of pixels. As far as "pay to win in a bad way", there is no such thing as good pay to win. Another thing to clarify is we're not asking for these vehicles to not be in the game at all, far from it. What we have an issue with is putting these heavily armed fast-attack vehicles behind a paywall, and then trying to pass them off as "just another light transport" when they're anything but. The Eldar one just happens to be more out there than the other factions: last time I checked, jetbikes can't equip a Bright Lance.
They reran the poll several times until they got the community to say "okay but be careful" on "sidegrades" and then argued with us for a year about them when we saw what "sidegrades" would be like, it's not surprising they're still trying to force this business model despite everything they've said to the contrary.
What about if everything is accessible to f2p people or guys who buy the game after launch but founder item have different peraphs more sophisticated skin? As I founder I don't care if stuff is or will be also available with earned ingame currency, as a warhammer lore nutter I won't like if everyone can look like an elite because in the fluff some items or troop type are rare
I think it's amazing how badly people are freaking out over this. We don't even know all the vehicles that will be available to everyone yet and people are acusing the devs of "lying" and "breaking their promise". I mean come on, give the poor sods a minute to figure things out! They've got way more to deal with than they could possibly manage simultaneously. So let's ask the devs (in a calm, non hostile or acusatory manner) at the next opportunity and see what they say. IF the answer is "yes we're locking all these things behind a paywall" (probably not in those words xD) THEN we can all freak out and get worked up about it. As of right now it's just a waste of time and nerves. Also: Those that are freaking out now and telling everyone that the game is pay to win, are just damaging the reputation of the game for no good reason. What we've seen so far is that the devs are willing to listen to us and change things accordingly, they just need some time.
Why is everyone so pissed off at bE, for allowing founders to acquire a 2-man bike a few months before everyone else? I know it seems like P2W (which is bad), but aren't there other things we should take care off first? Also, have anyone asked this question for the next Q&A thinge? EDIT: They still haven't changed that fact that EVERYONE can get the 1-man bike, have they?
