I have to agree with most of these points. The amount of attacks is a bit high, however. I would say 1 attack following a successful bash is definitely more than enough unless you're using the narth/knife/knuckles. Then 2 attacks would be totally justified.

The problem is also with the bash design, however. I still don't feel the current bash implementation is a true counter to light attack spam. Removing the durability is a step in the right direction, but it's a step backwards since we were there only 3 weeks ago.

^

I'm upset about how you take durability damage for things that are NOT clangs.

A DBash vs a Fast attack has never been considered a 'clang' before this patch (it was an interrupt). Now, if you DBash a fast-attack vs a higher tier weapon, you lose durability. This is really really dumb as you're doing exactly what you're SUPPOSED to in melee.

* If you have a knife and fast-attack a fist's fast attack, you should lose a ton of your durability (if not all). This is fine.

* If you DBash a fist's fast-attack, you should interrupt/briefly stun them and NOT take durability damage. Currently, you bash them but lose most of your durability doing it...this is not fine.

As it is now, all melee has to do to beat a knife is fast-attack, fast-attack, fast-attack until your durability is gone! It's a little ridiculous!!!!:

Bash the 1st Fast attack: You lose most of your durability
Bash 2nd Fast attack: Your weapon is now broken
...you are now effectively dead from their next hit(s)...there is nothing else you can do to stop their next fast attack (Strong attack is too slow, you'll lose to a clang if you fast attack, and you can't bash again because your weapon is broken).

^

Agreed. A lot of the melee does come from lag issues but its more actually the server delays. I'm not sure what's causing such delay from the server when i have 59 ms.... But its there. It makes melee impossible to predict and fight against. By the time I see the swing coming, its already happened and I'm downed. No time get that perfect roll off or d-bash.

But ya, there's a lot of stuff that needs tuning/fixing/changing with the melee system. I for one am just done with this game until its fixed. I can't play a minute longer currently. The sheer amount of melee that is occurring AND WINNING is insane. Its not even a shooter anymore. Just a trash and clunky spammy melee game with a shit lock-on system that you can't get away from.

Just tired and done.

The problem as you have seen in regards to the spam is... well spam. They half-assed and copied other games in regards to all their systems.

For example, their melee system is a horrible, half-assed copy of Dark Souls. But Dark Souls is usually 1v1 and everyone has different stamina pools and stamina regen, armour, gear, weapons, etc. Also when you swing or BLOCK (something they dont have in EC), you lose some stamina. This game doesn't actually have an effective system in place for melee in general. The rock-paper-scissors was a cheap quick cop-out to come up with something to rush this game out.

Now that its out and has shown that it doesn't work at all, its time to fix it. Nobody really likes it even if you are good with melee. Its not rewarding. Lock-on is cheesy especially because you can SWING FOR FUCKING EVER WITH NO PENALTY!!!! That is the major point that needs to be addressed for now and SOON. More durability on weapons would be nice as well. Melee should be fun and challenging, not spamming and easy win button mode.

Lunging with every attack animation needs to go as it screws up ranged ability to shoot into combat and lead targets. Its too jumpy. Game feels bad trying to shoot anything. To compensate though, melee classes would need some kind of buff defensively AND also be given complete freedom of movement when attacking. Rather than locking in for the direction you are lunging in.

Fix plz.

I understand your frustration against melee, but the issue isn't that melee classes are too powerful, it's that the others classes melee tools are not working properly to allow them a window of opportunity.

Lock-on is not the problem. It can in fact be a liability to the melee spammer if you are rolling properly. It can be annoying, certainly (I wouldn't mind if it went away, but I don't mind it existing...except for smart pistols vs. Jumpers).

Momentum when swinging is not the problem (it's a big problem if the melee guys can't actually hit a backpedaling ranged enemy).

Requiring the use of stamina to swing is NOT the problem (it was a MASSIVE issue when that was tried and gimps melee to the point of being absurdly irrelevant).

Ranged damage is OK, melee damage is OK. Melee mechanics are NOT and so tacticals/devs have no chance for reprieve once an enemy melee is on them. If they could actually keep their weapon from breaking (even though they may be perfectly executing the correct counters), then they would be alright.

If a successful DBash hit actually gave them enough time to pop a couple of rounds off (without just getting hit immediately after they DBashed the enemy), they would be fine. If successfully using DBash vs. Fast attacks was working correctly, they would be fine.

I don't think this is the case at all. If you ask me, it's actually a smarter move than using a more complex system than Dark Souls or copying Space Marine's system 1-for-1. You want a very simple system so new players can pick it up easily, but the veteran players can use additional things (terrain, the pistol, grenades, etc.) to create interesting situations and engagements.

The problem lies in the fact that it was never a consistent system. The implementation of the rules--especially the bash--were changing rapidly from patch to patch because they sometimes didn't work at all. The only time where I can say this system worked fairly consistently was when the bash stunned melee for a full 5 seconds on hit, but even that might be rose-tinted glasses from last year. It was also much too steep a penalty. But it did allow ranged breathing room up close.

If they just tweak this system so RMB spam can be always be punished, it would be miles ahead of where it is, and far fewer people would be complaining. Getting them to do that (or at least respond why they can't), however, is like pulling teeth for some reason. I've been trying to provide this feedback since about December/January, and while certain things have changed for the better, the fundamental issue remains.

Please at least acknowledge our pleas about the fundamental melee mechanics on the forums, devs. I hate to tag so often in similar topics, but this has been such a huge issue for so long in my eyes. @BrentEllison @Maspalio @Oveur

If you watch the recent stream, you can see Nathan playing the game... Apart from him doing bad in the game (wich is intended, as far as i understood ) His melee clangs always worked. There the system seems to be what it is supposed to be. And i would like my game to behave like this, all i want. No nerfs, no buffs, just the system working as intended. THEN we can talk about what to nerf and what to buff i guess

At one point of Nathan's rank 1 lsm tactical masochistic gameplay, he decided to just stay in vehicles, because he would be instantly butchered by all the eldar sharks running around at 40 kph.