I certainly don't dislike the Ultramarines but I've always found many of the other chapters more compelling due to surface flaws that give can give them surprising depth...on both loyalist and traitor side. For me...Raven Guard has always been my favored LSM chapter because of that. The Ultramarines give the "baseline" for what a SM should be theoretically and ultimately (no pun intended) give context to the many of the other SM chapters of not only the First Founding but the later ones as well.
In these times of strife, heresy and madness, the ones who work as the baseline are of extreme importance, Ultramrines are the standard bearers of humanity, you know you can rely on them to perform their duty, no matter the circumstances. I dont understand their hate on them. Being so completely lack flavour might not attrack the young childern who feel the need to make a difference among the crowd, but how can you hate smth so generic, what can you despise on them, when there is nothing characteristic, that cannot be found in any other SM chapter?
I can understand [EDIT: *SOME OF*] the love and admiration of the Ultramarines (one of my best friends plays them all the time in the tabletop game); but I'll have to admit that it's just not for me. I came to this Thread in hopes of finding compelling reasons to love Ultramarines--DON'T LET ME DOWN! *serious face* o_o With the broadest of brush strokes: For comparison, I'd almost go into a DC vs Marvel debate. DC heroes tend iconic & archetypal (i.e. "Gods Amongst Men") whereas Marvel heroes tend to retain flaws & hubris (i.e. "They're Still Human"). Where most DC heroes' drama lays in playing their roles to the hilt; many Marvel heroes' drama lays in them having weakness/flaws. To get away from a Marvel vs DC debate (*Focus Dakka, Focus!*): For your information, I'm currently halfway through reading the novel, Know No Fear. [Currently enjoying the "Smurf ROFLStomp" a bit too much. ^_^;;] Most (if not all) of the Primarchs are archetypal, and most (if not all) have flaws. Upon reading what little I have of the Black Library publications (~5-10 books); I just find the Ultramarines Primarch (and most of the Ultramarine protagonists) lacking in the "Compelling!" department. To my understanding; Guilliman is draconian, clinical, detached, and nigh-dogmatic with his treatise of war. This does lead to your awesome Roman Archetype--but Rome had FLAWS from within (corruption, debauchery, over-reaching, etc.). However, Guilliman has no apparent flaws whatsoever (outside my aforementioned appraisal of him). This, by extension, leads his legion to follow in the same suit, "We're just too perfect---like our perfect gene-seed--and that's our crux to bear! *crocodile tears*" Sidebar: There's a moment where Guilliman first loses his cool in the novel Know No Fear. Like Lorgar admitted himself; it is the closest I ever came to actually liking Guilliman. Once again, I'm looking forward to some good counter-argument (and in a "healthy debate" sort of way).
