Ork boyz who're significantly stronger than average wouldn't be called ork boyz, and wouldn't look identical to ork boyz. They'd be nobz, and that particular Waaagh! would simply be described as having a preponderance of nobz. If the EC ork boyz were magically like the orks who're locked in the seemingly endless struggle with tyranids (as in the Octarius War) they would be physically much larger and more imposing. The fact that ork boyz in EC look like generic ork boyz makes it obvious we're dealing with standard ork boyz. These aren't daemons we're talking about, who're fueled by the Warp. If an ork is stronger than normal, it's larger and more muscular than normal. This of course is no surprise, as there is zero indication that this particular Waaagh! has been going on an exceptionally long time, so as to produce extraordinarily formidable orks. Having all orks be nobz is no big deal. You're completely wrong in thinking that all-nob forces don't exist when we're talking about <100 orks at a time. Absolutely a warboss might send his elite units to deal with particularly tough fights. Sure, it'd be more lore-friendly if the nobs had a few hundred boyz with them, and that was the original plan when free-to-waaagh was a thing, but we can make do. Space Marine was not exaggerated in terms of marine power vs. orks. Marines are explicitly said to deep strike into the middle of a Waaagh! with a squad or two, slaughter hundreds of boyz, dozens of nobz, and then assassinate the warboss, bringing the Waaagh! to an end as the remaining ork tribes squabble for dominance and succumb to infighting, with the Imperial Guard/PDF cleaning up. Once again, space marines number a thousand per chapter at most, and in virtually every case they are under-strength, spread across the galaxy, and can only devote a squad or two to any particular engagement. And yet despite this, a single squad of space marines routinely turns the tide in a war against virtually any enemy, whether tau or orks or eldar. Space marines are a ridiculous power fantasy. You need to accept this. It's the core of 40k, and why space marines are the most popular of all the factions. As for your silly challenge to me, read any of the fluff, please. Space marines routinely decapitate ork Waaaghs!, slaughtering boyz and nobz and the warboss without significant losses, despite being vastly outnumbered. That's their whole deal. Even the stories in the ork codices where the orks ultimately win feature the space marines slaughtering vast quantities of orks before finally being cut off and overwhelmed. Anyway, explaining 40k to dilettantes is tiresome. I don't feel like responding anymore to this line of dialogue. Please read the codices. 40k is a cool setting, and you're doing yourself a disservice being so ignorant of it, relying only on DoW or EC for your understanding of the setting.
So here is the problem with trying to use anything writen as concrete. For every book or story there is a counter story explained by a different author with a different objective in mind. Examples First book of beast arises series the Imperial Fist are killed off to a single astartes. A different book in that series writen by a different author has two, thats right TWO, harlequins break into the imperial palace of Terra, kill about two dozen or more custodes, and almost reach the throne room. The black templars and Iron warriors allied togethor to fight orks. Sooo I bet most people's jaws dropped on that shit (which I agree it is) but geuss what. Thats all canon now We have the Rynn's world and Purge of Kaldaris books highlighting show orks wrecking gaurd and marine forces alike with blitz attacks and strategery. Sure one starts off with an accident blowing up an entire marine fortress monestary. Then the book ends with an equal ass pull for the good guys so they can win like good guys do. Marines win in books because that sells. There are also chaos books where they win because they are the focus. Geuss what when orks are the focus (as rare as that f@#$%ing is) they also win. Gruuk Facerippa kills an entire SM chapter within a couple of days of making planet fall. The tau win plenty of fights despite the Imperium easily having the resources to wipe them out of existance because again plot and reasons. If it is an inquisition book we can see them defeating a greater deamon arcana because thats what the plot dictates. Lets ignore the fact that deamons of that caliber can pretty much just delete you from existance by thinking it soooo yeah. Implying that we don't know anything about fluff or canon because we have a different opinion is just insulting tbh. I for one love IG books. I wish they had more, but honestly those books usually only work because they rarely show actual mass scale combat. They focus on the mission that wins or the last minute miracle that saves the day. Gaunt's Ghosts is a great example of elite forces doung crazy stuff, and those guys die off by the dozens almost every book to pretty much everything. They also highlight how deadly 40k is in general when weapons of any faction are used right. Gaunt kills a friggen chaos dreadnaught with a power sword opening his casing and using a bunch of flamers to boil water as it poors into it after it fell into a pool of water. On the other end of the scale we have things like the Flesh tearer books that show like 20 marines fighting off hordes of massive dinosaurs the size of titans with bolters because again fuck it why not. Canon varies so wildly in 40k that anyone can have an honest opinion on how they see it that varies drasticly from others. Its allowed. I don't really care which stance you take but if you just go "nope your wrong I'm right" in 40k then you to are ignoring a ton of things in 40k printed both present and past. Shrugs* take that as you will.
Cancerous marine "lore expert" in its natural state of spewing bile and crapping on any Ork player and fan. Yep. Nothing else to see here folks, go back to 1v1ing marines in EC.
wrong, I mentioned to you a canonical example of this not happening (the beast waaagh) they ARE bigger than the boys in space marine and with gear on they will look even bigger anyway, a few facts the ork with the claw is more powerful than the other boys the ork with the claw is barely bigger than the other boys the ork with the claw is technically a nob these little facts demonstrate that an ork to be stronger (nob-tier strength) doesn't need to be all that visibly larger zero indication? belial, jain zar, abbadon, a dreadnought-sized warboss, 5 first founding chapters, 5 warbands from the old legions, 5 craftworld forces, 5 major klans, plus at least 2 different tyranid splinters on a single world not even armageddon got close to this an assertion requires a demonstration: post ONE example of an all nobs force you're also ignoring the possibility the matches we do in EC may be representative of larger forces again, post a source because fluff sees marines getting slaughtered in droves when it's seen fitting while I can't think of a single example of an average captain leading a pair of marines into breaking hundreds of orks, dozens of nobs, a warboss, daemons, chaos marines and a daemon prince. I don't see a citation~ ad hominem, proof by assertion, cherrypicking, appeal to false authority, strawmanning these are only the fallacies that come out reading your more recent posts here and you are supposedly even trying to not insult people's intelligence
It's already been discussed that all of the Orks on Arkhona are Skarboyz, i.e. stronger, more experienced Orks that are still not quite Nobz. I'm usually the first person in line to defend 40k lore, but requesting an all-Nob army to replace Boys as basic units is insane both for balancing and lore purposes. The Ork background story in EC is a stretch, but so are plenty of 40k canon sources. If you read the Ork section in "Factions at War" trivia you'll notice that they're referring to Skarblitz as a "visionary new Warlord". This could easily be interpreted as "uses elite strike units rather than waves of grots as is always the case" and not just "Mork-blessed". Also the name - Warlord Skarblitz. A warlord that uses Skarboyz for blitzkrieg tactics. I'm putting waaay too much effort in justifying Orks in EC I know , but it works for me at least.
Right, so nothing written counts, because it's 100% marine protagonist armor nonsense, and none of the games count. In other words, nothing is ruled out. So I guess that leaves us with Imperial Guard being a shoo-in, which was my original point. And there I was, taken in my the stories in the codices about how space marines are vastly stronger than regular humans. I'm ashamed. Anyway, glad to see we're all finally in agreement that orks, space marines, and regular humans are all on the same level. Here's to Imperial Guard in 2017.
I honestly wouldn't care if IG get added in and can kill a marine or ork or eldar or w/e as long as they use the weapons designated to do so. A hot shot las rifle is strong, hellguns are strong, meltas, stubbers, other bigger weapons are all strong. Humans however don't have the physical strength to fight off most of their opponents in melee without either luck or rare power weapons. So i geuss you guys could get an army of Yarrick like dudes with stolen power klaws or charging squads of power cutlas users. Devs don't wanna put standard gaurd in, but I don't see how we couldn't just as easily add a coalition of the imperium faction with inquisitors, Specialist gaurdsman, SOB, maybe some ogryn, etc etc. Just flat IG prob won't work though. They also have the gameplay issue of not really being able to fight the SM faction. If it was one of the more notorious douchy Sm factions sure, but we really only have the DA as possible candidates for who would really fight them. Pretty sure if 5 chapters of SM tell a general to piss off he is probably going to listen. So lore wise we would have to have some kind of rogue general or super crazy importance to Arkona requiring a mandate from Terra to get them there. This would still end up forcing the imperium forces to ally together. From just a story point it starts getting muddled and weird. TLR teh majority of IG just would not work and need a combined imperium coalition force. Many people have said they wouldn't mind this route.
For sure. As I was saying in my original post, all I'm on about is that ork boyz are obviously not fluffy in their equality with marines, so there's no fluff reason standing between stormtroopers/scions for Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum. An Imperial Guard side with standard classes of stormtroopers and maybe ogryns or something like (but not) Catachans for a melee class is all I'm saying. And I guess they could have Officio Assassinorum/Sororitas/Inquisition for Elites. Some dummy up above thinks I'm a space marine fan, but the truth is I'm a pretty hardcore IG fan and am using ork boyz as my jumping-off point for IG cheerleading. Getting bogged down in a bunch of people not knowing anything about 40k and insisting ork boyz are indeed equal to space marines was just a bizarre segue. Although I would like to see the game made more fluffy with ork boyz being replaced by nobz, too.
