Either they (Devs) gotta lose the backcapping OR decrease its time significantly OR make these maps ticket-based, perhaps with a number of tickets different to Fortresses or smth but still.

Otherwise its near-impossible to win as an attacker. The only time i saw these maps won were when the defending team was 3 times smaller than the attackers lol.

That would make the first minute ungodly boring for the second, however the first I would love to test.

I often just sit there with a plasma cannon. Don't often need a second person, but call in a melta/help when they bring vehicles.

Well, starting with 0 points works in team fortress 2. Most likely the meta would be to have 1 squad cap the first point while everyone else rides directly over to the second point.

I kinda feel as though recapping points should add time to the clock. 5 mins seems to be the standard for attackers, 3 minutes for defenders. A lot of the time backcapping pretty much ends the game immediately without much of a point to keep fighting as an attacker.

The devs should also explore the option of a real tug of war where both sides start with 1 or 2 objectives in their possession and attempt to push through to the other side.

For example, imagine Zedek where the attackers start at B and Defenders start at C. The only way to win is for one side controlling the entire map. Either no timer, or a timer that can be extended via capping and a 0 resulting in a draw.

Edit: Sumshine beat me to it. It's early in the morning. I missed it.

Attackers (those in contol of A&B) would be almost unbeatable if that was the case.

Not sure. If the defenders enjoy a 3/4s recap bonous, defenders can really push the attacking force back on Zedek pretty hard. It's a bit like WSG from WoW, you need attackers and defenders for both teams.

Its not that you need attacking teams and defending teams that is the problem in that map.Its the distance between A and B that is problematic at the moment(imo) .However if time wasnt such a problem it could work i guess.Too bad we will propably not have the chance to test it.

At this point what I would perfer to see instead:

Territory with,

Olipsis, Zedek, Blackbolt v2, and Blackbolt v1 (siege) arranged in a circle with the siege map in the middle with Zedek being the gate to this map. Owners of the territory can fast travel to any of the conflicts via a station in the deployment zone of each map - otherwise it's walk or drive. Defenders start with the entire map save the Attackers deployment which is whatever outpost was the gateway to the siege map they're attacking from: like Medusa, or Maggon, or another Zedek. Attackers can attempt to take maps to gain access to the next zone. Ultimate goal: take the hardmode Blackbolt by first conqeuering your way to it.

Defenders win if they can push the Attackers out of the territory completely. (i.e. they can't spawn anywhere in the region)

No timers.

That's what I want to see.

Zedek is actually an interesting map once you cap B, because the spawns actually work as forward bases. We've actually had a "Tug of war" happen in this area, and it was fun. Too bad almost no one will ever experience this.

And that is the gist of why the current tug-of-war maps don't work. A is utterly and completely useless for attackers. It's not a forward base, it doesn't add vehicles, it does nothing for attackers short of slow them down. Worst of it all, because the devs didn't think through when having the capture rate on A, it's virtually impossible to defend if a cap starts unless you already have people on it.

And recapping A is basically a game over for attackers.

So we have a situation where Attackers have to cap 3/4 points in a row to win, but defenders only have to cap one point to win.

It is also "rewarding" defenders for losing A, by giving them a new win condition. Meanwhile, attacker get punished when taking A, by getting a new lose condition, and getting nothing in return for it.

Also, have I mentioned how absolutely BORING it is to defend A from backcappers? You sit there waiting minutes for that one rambo that will inevitably come to try and cap, doing jack nothing. Or serve as a spotter when they send a rhino and a full squad, for you to be able to yell "Rhino at A!" as they unload, murder everyone and take the point with ease, since it's 100% impossible to reach A by spawning after the cap starts.

This isn't fun. This isn't a valiant defense; it's giving up all your fun and XP to prevent a cheese mechanic that should have been fixed 3 patches ago.