View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M56aycpd9kA&ebc=ANyPxKrPB1zM7gW8g7m2MG1rWSKl2-8nMdKav5D26VY6Mnoc26I2Tcv1NTC---cq3tLKhIJFBSO7oMeR2t5cBTSsy_N6nDPM_Q this episode is strangely relevant to the discussion
That said, most of my disdain is for the Space Wolf fanbase making them into Mary Sues who can 1vs1 any other Space Marine then their actual fluff. Like I said, recently they dialed back the whole 'Emperors Executioner' and 'More victories then Horus' thing.
Personally i'd say that the recent lore is as much to blame. William King's books and most of Chris Wraight's novels tend to keep them balanced out for the most part (with their own failings here and there) but of late the codices just went nuts. There's now countless tales of the Space Wolves pulling off ridiculous nonsense without any repercussions, ranging from what seems to be intentional parody to making the Inquisition their bitch. Not saying that this is all bad, far from it, but it never struck that kind of Second Edition cheesy charm the orks have always retained.
Ugh, my feelings on the Emperors Gift is...mixed. I'm cool with it if they get some kind of comeuppance later, but if they don't get anything...
Oh I wasn't even referring to that in all honesty, that at least had some boundaries and repercussions as you pointed out. It's more moments like this which stand out as remarkably badly thought out.
As the person who made a thread titled "Some of us like Ultramarines and that's ok", I feel the need to comment. I'm not going to quote verbatim what I said there, but it basically boils down to: Blood Angels and Space Wolves are the best melee fighters, Salamanders are the kindest, Imperial fist are the best siege breakers, Dark Angels and Raven Guard are the best at flanking, the White Scars are the greatest hit and run experts, and the Iron Hands are the best tankers. The ultramarine's boast none of these. They are not the best siege breakers, they are not the best fighters, they are not the best shooters, they are not the best tankers. Their ranks contain people who are VERY GOOD at these things, but overall the structure lacks that power. What makes the Ultramarine's cool to me is that the Ultramarine's are the best empire builders. In a universe where everything is shit and living is shit and everyone would be better off dead, the Ultramarines have built an entire "mini empire" within the Imperium that's actually a rather pleasant place to live, where security is good, where the ADMINISTRATION is good. Also yeah by far the Space Wolves as a whole seem to get more lavishness thrown at them. The Ultramarines have standout dudes (Cato, the tank guy...uh...papa smurf? Sortof?) but the ENTIRE space wolf chapter seems to get the special snowflake thing thrown on them.
There are many reasons to critique the Ultramarines. Some of Roboutes motivations are kind of shady, they certainly aren't the most humble chapter, and sometimes they follow the Codex Astartes even above their common sense. Empire building is not one of those reasons though, which is why I am often confused why some players try to take even that by saying there was something wrong with Imperium Secondous. Was there something sinister behind it? Maybe. But did the Emperor mind? Hell no, Roboute was doing what he was made to do and he did it better then a whole lot of people would have, with various Primarchs commenting on it with both respect and jealousy.
I'm kinda tired of reading this everywhere. I'm not saying that you and all the others saying this are wrong or offending in any way, this is just mine and few others opinion (there's an article about dorn on 1d4chan that expresses my feelings about it much better than me), but I feel Imperial Fists are much more than that, they are just as well balanced and disciplined as the Ultramarines, but way more humble and willing to face and be known for siege/attrition war, which is probably the least glorious and thrilling combat specialty, at least for what concerns astartes.
