I'm sorry, but last I recalled acts such as exterminatus were used as a last ditch effort when ground operations were not viable in the slightest and there was no hope in saving the planet. It is not something used when a warband simply drops onto the world and the fighting starts, and at worst it leaves a dead world in its wake. Not a yawning hole into oblivion unleashing Cthulhu on steroids and his ilk into the universe to wreck more havoc and take more lives. I would also add that the hypocrite statement is complete nonsense from the ground up. The excuse was that this was all for humanity's freedom, that people needed to be one with the Warp, but we have seen many times over that this is more often than not forced upon others rather than given. The very primarchs themselves were turned to Chaos thanks to the gods actively latching onto emotional scars and character flaws rather than any message of enlightenment. Some had to be outright possessed as their legions turned and we have seen time and time again in novels that the influence of Chaos often brings with it outright insanity rather than enlightenment. This is not to mention that for all the "freedom" they preach, most legions/warbands rely extremely heavily upon enslaving others and killing off the ones who show some spine rather than rewarding it. Hell, entire warbands follow religions surrounding their patron gods which are unequivocally false, such as claiming the eldar had no influence over Slaanesh being unleashed upon the universe. Please, argue that Chaos has some variety to it, that's not going to be questioned here, but please don't be ashamed of the faction's villainous tenancies or try to claim they are the only ones without hypocrisy to them. It just undermines the value of your own argument. This also has nothing to do with the topic at hand so I suggest we leave it at that, and simply agree to disagree. That also goes for you Sergoros, I can hear you typing.
It's pretty clearly the Marines Malevolent, but the Space Wolves are jerks even in their own books. That takes some special douchery.
You cannot expect me to say nothing before letting it lie. For one, when I say extermination, though yes that heavily implies Exterminatous, it is not limited to. There are plenty of segments of the Imperium that would wipe out planets that grew rebellious or if they believe Chaos has taken root, this does not need to be full cleanse, but they will certainly deal death rather liberally. Plus there's the whole glorification of the Great Crusade where they pretty much wiped out any culture that didn't meet their standards or bow to the will of the Emperor. Also, much of the methods of the Legion's methods have more to the degradation of their sanity to the point that they no longer actually have any ideals beyond the gaining of power, the standard warband of marauding Astartes probably doesn't actually care about freedom or anything in particular other than waging war and becoming more empowered by chaos, it's not hypocrisy it's survival of the fittest at its cruelest. But yes, I will cede that there are plenty of hypocrites and villainous characters in chaos, I just take issue when the viewpoint is given that the Chaos perspective is always wrong. The main point I was trying to get across is the moral highground doesn't actually exist on a faction by faction basis, merely individual groups or just individuals may be better or worse than others.
No, but i'd hope we could keep this out of this thread. Could we please continue this via private conversation to prevent further derailing?
It's a tie between the Marines Malevolent and the Dark Angels for me, especially after hearing about that last post where the DA literally brainwash their entire chapter. I always knew they were closet-traitors. They just don't know it yet. The moment that chapter goals are put ahead of the well-being of the Imperium is the day that a chapter has earned their Traitor status, I'm just surprised no other chapter has caught on yet. On the subject of Marines Malevolent: I've gotta say they outrank the Minotaurs, because while the Minotaurs see killing fellow Astartes as the ultimate challenge/sport, at least they actually care about something: The orders given to them by the High Lords of Terra and possibly innocent civilians. The Marines Malevolent seem to strike me as the type to do as they please, with the "might proves right" mentality. That is one attitude that should never be a cornerstone of any chapter's philosophy, IMO. I'm also 90% sure that the only reason the Marines Malevolent haven't become traitors already is the simple fact that they can continue to wage war - as they see fit - for the loyalists with far less repercussions than if they turned renegade.
I wasn't actually planning on continuing on the topic here, but that was a fairly elaborate contradiction to leave hanging.
Agreed, assholes like him (cant remember his name) and Leandros are definitely reasons why people dislike the Ultras
