Yeees so much rage. Just as a butthurt fan of Lorgar should feel. Who talked about Lexicanum? What i said also comes from the lore. Unless you haven't read Battle for the Abyss, Know No Fear and Fulgrim (for the Corax part)? Even if i had quoted Lexicanum, it too comes from the general synopsis of the books and it is a fact that Lorgar failed hard in his mission to sabotage the Ultramarines and put them out of the game in the traitors' race for Terra. The Word Bearers got backhanded and the Ultramarines fleet still went for Terra. Since you're so knowledgeable when it comes to the lore, please, do enlighten us and share with us your opinion on the whole matter. Try to avoid words like "noob" or "fanboy" when clearly you're a fanboy yourself. =]
That's dissapointing. All i keep reading is "go read the books" when i'm telling you that i HAVE read the books. I have them on a shelf next to me, i could even take a picture of them if you'd like. I'm not sure if you really believe that i haven't read them or you're just saying that trying to grab from somewhere. I just hope that you'll be better in fighting in the game than you are in arguing here, although considering you're a Word Bearer fan, i seriously doubt it. What's even funnier is that even if i hadn't read a single book, the Lexicanum which you're accusing me of having read, contains the very same story the books are narrating so it makes no difference. The fact remains, Lorgar failed in his mission. I could say he was successful at turning Angron into a Demon Prince and paving the road for his own "ascension" but he failed at the job he had to do. Even when fighting Guilliman, it took another Primarch to save his ass AGAIN just like it had happened with Corax. Lorgar keeps getting his ass handed to him. You can support Lorgar all you want, being a Word Bearers fan and all but really, the lore is against you when it comes to the Calth expedition mate.
So you're totally ignoring the fact that Guilliman was just about to slay Lorgar when Angron intervened and you're pleading Fulgrim and the Alpha Legion? Lorgar achieved his final goal by having another Primarch kill his brother for him cause he himself was too much of a joke of a Primarch to do it himself? Wow, that's lower than expected. Lorgar wasn't responsible for the Heresy, Erebus basically (and also Kor Phaeron) was. He's the one that brought both Lorgar and Horus to Chaos. I'm assuming that you're the one that has been reading while high if you "missed" that huge part of the books. Calth was indeed a fail. In case you have also missed that part of the books, the objective was this: Ambush the Ultramarines, cripple them, make them unable to reach Terra and take them out of the chessboard. Now what did Lorgar achieve? He did cripple a significant part of their fleet yes, but obviously not a big enough part since the rest of the fleet came back and even though outnumbered, they managed to blow both Lorgar's flagships Fidelitas Lex and the Furious Abuss into pieces. For an ambush attack, i'd say that's quite a disgrace. After that, despite Lorgar's best efforts, the Ultramarines were still standing and posing quite a big threat, their fleet was racing to Terra, Horus knew that Lorgar failed to do his job and with the Ultramarines and Space Wolves coming for him, he had to act fast and lower his shields with the known consequences. Long story short, Lorgar's failure pretty much may have been the reason why Chaos didn't take Terra. So yeah, congratulations on burning a few worlds with the help of an extra legion, and then having to flee all the way to the Eye of the Storm like hunted dogs. I swear, the Word Bearers is the most laughable Legion of them all. Pretty much every Loyalist Legion is going to have a party with you guys in the game.
Russ and Lion. Neither is better than the other and both are better than Guilliman. Down with the codex astartes and it's filth. Non-Codex chapters ftw. Also Tyberos and Temperus Maximus should totally count as Primarchs.
I'm trying to make a point of not taking part in this argument, but there are a few facts which need correcting: The former of which was only achieved via effectively zerg rushing a trio of isolated vessels with everything they had, and only proceeding to take that ship down out of those they faced. Not only that but they lost even more of their fleet in the attempt , eventually pulling back with heavy casualities. The Word Bearers and World Eaters were the ones outnumbered, not the Ultramarines in that battle. Also, the Furious Abyss was only taken down in a hail mary pass by loyalist elements from four legions, not the Ultramarines' fleet in some massive battle. All those involved died in the assault and the ship's loss was ultimately caused the battle of Calth to take place. The Word Bearers' original plan was to have that ship bombard Calth from orbit killing the Ultramarines before they could fight back. At least according to that book, things get a bit muddled once other authors started to write about the Battle of Calth. Unless things have changed, to my knowledge it was the Space Wolves and Dark Angels who were racing to Terra. The Ultramarines had little direct involvement against the traitors beyond the Shadow Crusade in Ultramar. They only began to truly fight once the other legions had ground one another down leaving them in a position of strength.
your right more like war bands, and yes they would most likely fight each other. But they are still known to be alive (hiding in the eye of terror like children yes) but still alive.
Lol the discussion ended when you claimed that Lorgar is more responsible for the Heresy than the man that actually introduced him to Chaos itself and took him down that path alongside Horus. As for the "kid" part, it says in your profile that you're 21 so yeah.. nice try xD
coma and dead in stasis is not alive. The only loyal primarch that you can say for sure is alive is Vulkan that dude can't die.
Thank you for the compliment, but my time is short otherwise I would be interested in getting involved in such a discussion. With respect you seem to be as bad as one another. You both keep skipping over obvious points and embellishing on certain facts to various degrees. I did not wish to say this due to the fact it sounds like back seat modding, but both of you keep throwing in insults at one another where they are not needed. The main reason I responded to Vespasian is that there is more than enough material to defend the Ultramarines and prove they are great without buffing up their victories. The fact that the force that took down the Furious Abyss was led and planned by Ultramarines would be a good one, as would the fact they managed to permenantly shatter the Night Lords legion. That or the entirety of The Chapter's Due, with the Ultramarines chapter in as big a disadvantage as could be imagined and still finding a way to win against insurmountable odds. Or your own claim that most chapters ignore the Codex Astartes, when it is used as a basis for most chapter company formations and elements of its teachings usually remain in certain ones. The Black Templars and Space Wolves are the exception to those who deviate from the Codex not the rule, with others such as the Fire Hawks and Raven Guard adapting aspects of its teachings to better suit their own approaches to war. To be honest he sort of does have a point with that. Kor Phaeron was the one who ultimately passed on a number of Chaotic teachings to the legion and Erebus was the one who ultmately schemed his way into corrupting Horus. Lorgar was definitely the overall planner behind the event, but they did play crucial roles with their own skills and abilities.
