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Who Is The Best Primarch?

Discussion in 'Space Marines' started by Grigdusher, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. Hrolf New Member

    I think Horus was a great primarch pre-heresy. But post heresy I think that either Leman Russ, or Vulkan are the best primarchs due to their legions actions after their disappearances.
    Sharpe45 likes this.
  2. Valaron Valaron Arkhona Vanguard

    Ok ok, you are special kids :)
  3. I do not claim that Emperor is God or that all his decisions were right. Thing is not even about that PB was made by Emp.
    There is thing that we as people who got the meta know Codex has one major flaw - dividing Legions Astartes(Second Founding) - into Adeptus Astarted, and thus making primary global proactive force of Mankind into secondary local reactive force, wich by result made Imperium stagnate and then degenerate. And i sure that if RG was not in his "Emperor cosplay" he intented to change doctrine of Astartes as soon as time will demand it but just like Emperor he took onto himself to much not leaving to his followers way to decide on their own.
  4. Valaron Valaron Arkhona Vanguard

    Hm, thats what leaders do. They do not wait, they do not falter, they just do. Good decisions, bad decisions - Caesar was genious, eh? But was killed by lesser men! Or..he was a traitor, tyrant and build a foundation (empire) on which Rome slipped and fall few hundred years later? We can not say what would have happened if he had released his army and came back to Rome in humiliation, as senate was asking to. We never know - what we know, is that Caesar was a great man, great strategist, military genius, and he pushed Rome forward, changed it forever. Same with RG - he did what he did and what he thought was right. And do not trait him as a Horus, like playing a new Emperor - in the last HH novel we see that RG learned his lesson well. When he came to Terra after Emperors death, there was no one who could have claimed control and managed all Milky Way like he did. Rogal Dorn was mad after fathers death. Sanguinius dead. Vulcan dead. Ferrus dead. Corax dead. Lion dead. Sigilitte dead. Do you really think Khan would have done all things better? Im sure we will find out soon enough :)

    As for Legiones Astartes - there was nothing to fight against after Horus was defeated and traitors fled to Eye of Terror. You see that in the first book of 32 k - I am Slaughter. Space marines snoozing in their posts on Terra, great champions has nothing to do, there is nothing to fight against in all galaxy. On some borders Imperial Guard fighting small wars against orks, but nothing worthy of Astartes. For a 1000 years Milky Way lived in peace after Horus death. So I really do not see the transition from legions to chapters being so bad decision. Small forces made for guarding various objects through all the galaxy. Clear structure, clear purpose. Aye?

    For the RECORD: I think the Legions where super COOL. Interesting, colourful, mighty, so on and so on. Chapters now are strict, a bit boring (to us players). So many weapons, types of vehicles, ranks and possibilities lost. But that does not say that 1 legion of 100 000 strength is stronger than 100 current chapters. No where it was stated or wrote. Its just interpretation of fans :)
    Galen likes this.
  5. And that's how leaders are judged(Good decisions, bad decisions) Emperor is to blame for Horus Heresy, but even HH won't mean decline for Imperium while current stagnation cause by CA mean. His best intents and good decision at the time, through course of Imperium's history turn out worst for Imperion. CA - is very good creation but at the time 40k it's so morally old and ineffective it makes Astartes same.

    It's not even matter strength i speak about purpose - LA is Mankind's army successfully doing it's needs. AA is "lazing" out dispersed monks that only can react on local threats. You compare 1 legion of might 100 000 and 100 chapters but because CA is nearly impossible to gather force of 100 chapters angaint of any ememy of Mankind for simple dispersion, logistical and commanding reasons.
  6. Valaron Valaron Arkhona Vanguard

    You know, there are some other known, GOOD and CLEVER books in our times, which are interpreted wrong and that brings chaos and destruction. So sometimes bad reader can see worst things in good reads. Lets not get into details about it because mods will interrupt soon :)

    Ehm, am I miss something - what does the Codex Astartes has in common with Imperium? Its a book for Astartes and common people along with the Lords of Terra have nothing to do with it. After the war was over, Astartes went to shadows. Humanity drove itself into current state, not Codex. We see all that in 32 k. Astartes do not intervene. They only fight. Corrupted and lazy Lords of the council driving Imperium into disaster.
  7. Galen Galen Arkhona Vanguard

    Is it really the CA that brought the IoM in its current state though?Because even now (41k) there are crusades being formed,just like in 30k .Isnt the fact that the light of the astronomicon can only reach so far that contributes to the IoM stagnation?Or the fact that the leaders of the IoM seem to be power hungry people(well not to the extent of other races or factions ofc).Or the fact that the AdMech doesnt bother to share their machines?
    Also this ancient and now dormant thread by our revered pony slayer brings up some good points against and for both legions and chapters.
    https://forum.eternalcrusade.com/threads/legions-vs-chapters-armies-of-a-different-age.44861/
  8. That's why power of Lords of Terra used to apply it? Or Imperial navi that attacked IF were under RG command? If RG had no support from Lords of Terra CA would have never beed implemented. All blame for HH was put on Loyal Legions while with Horus rebeled half(in composition sense) of Imperium there were AdMex with Titan Legions, IG, fleet and many more none them - the other IoM forces, were not rendered impotent as LA were.

    And you think is good notion? And yes RG also was Lord of Terra was he corrupter when allowed using might of LoT apparatus(IN against IF) to force CA on Imperial Fists?

    There are many things contributed to IoM's stagnation and degeneration - CA is just one of them(big one tho) bit it's vital in discussion RG character. You know meaning of "Pirr victory" cause that's what CA did - harm at end was more than good.

    Now about of your
    That's result of fall not cause of it.
    For example current AdMech many of them dumber than current school teachers, they receive knowledge as holy unable to even understand, not knowing "scientific method" of knowledge. Why is that? Cause too many people lost, entire forgeworld and sectors - wich returns us to Astartes problems as primary IoM warforce.
  9. Galen Galen Arkhona Vanguard

    Pyrrhic victory yes it was.
    But those were lost during the HH( or at least the majority).With the CA "eliminating" that possibility from happening again(there are some exceptions...DA,BA etc etc).Also the AdMech has been like that even during 30k.
    Valaron likes this.
  10. Valaron Valaron Arkhona Vanguard

    First things first - Dorn was not himself after the death of Emperor. You can not call him mad, but he had problems in his mind. I see grudge boiling inside of you - you to have control it, because if you dont, you will go chaos one day :) Galen is already dancing in circles seeing this. Blaming loyal Primarchs about your problems instead of traitor Primarchs is the straight way to heresy :D

    Second thing - how long RG was Lord of Terra? For 50 years or so? Less? So you cannot blame a person who just started to govern about what happened during next 10 000 years. I will tell you why - because RG was the best state builder and administrator in galaxy. The only Primarch who raised administrators and rulers from his warriors. Ultramar was governed by his chosen Astartes. After RG death those Astartes passed their knowledge to their younger brothers and so on. And Ultramar STILL prospers, and it lives under Codex Astartes. All the other Imperium does not follow it and is where it is. So do you really think CA and RG brought Imperium where it is now, or you are still angry that RG ordered to attack IF and forced them to split?

    Write your last answer and lets leave it here, now it has nothing to do with "who the best Primarch was" :D Lets back to the topic.
    Galen likes this.

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