What lesson's could be learned from games that have come before EC. I'm thinking specifically (mostly) along the lines of MMOFPS's that have either failed slowly died, aren't doing well, have poor rating etc. What have they done right that could be taken into consideration? (WAR for instance, though closing, had it's systems copied to high hell). What did they do wrong to fail? Some example: Tabla Rasa Global Agenda APB (All Points Bulletin) Brink Hellgate Forge *edit Adding "Firefall" since it has been much discussed in this thread and a good example though it still seems to be in limbo hell. There's a million out there now it seems that are absolute garbage I could list (like the MMORPG market and soon the MOBA market). That's just a few to get you thinking. ----- TL;DR - What can we learn from failed games from the past in the same genre.
Global Agenda wasn't the worst MMOFPS... however, it's lore didn't at all seem interesting to me. Along with the staple classes you could choose... there was no real faction that you belonged to. They had a large scale battleground similar to many other MMO's, where your clan / guild would take ownership of an area. I vaguely remember a cash shop for aesthetic purposes. If anyone here didn't know... World of Warcraft crudely copied one of its battlegrounds in their Expansion, Mists of Pandaria. But at the end of the day... their PvP wasn't legitimate... Aimbots were used frequently. All PvP and most aspects of PvE became fairly irrelevant. The only other MMOFPS i played personally was Fallen Earth. Had the whole Fallout series feel to it... Wasn't bad... but again Aimbots... and nothing that really interested me ( Aside from the disaster tourism aspect ).
I think one of the biggest lessons can be learned from Planetside 2. And that lesson is HAVE AN ENDGAME GOAL. A game that is just a constant tug of war with no way to declare a winner (even if temporary) gets old fast. That and vehicles should be in moderation.
You do bring up a good point and hopefully that's where some of the PvE will offset. The back and forth tedium can eventually just get boring and meaningless. Global Agenda somewhat suffered from a similar problem on it's global scale conflict. Once one Clan/side/team won and everything reset, there was no "real victory". And I didn't mean to imply that all the above games where terrible, I enjoyed several of them. Just that they ultimately didn't appeal to the masses or something caused the to be less than successful.
Well not exactly a failure but: Firefall. The movement feels great but the pve and combat in general do not satisfy(at least me). For the most part the weapons feel unsatisfying, weak and against sturdier enemies you are forced to spray bullets , reload , spray bullets, reload and so on. Sturdier enemies feel like a chore. Another issue were enormous repair prices for gear which made keeping good items in use hard. PvP was okish but everyone having a jetpack meant people flying left and right all the time. Game didn't have pvp in focus though. PvE content was added too slow , certain unfinished boss fights were possible to get into to only to be teleported to an instance where constantly spawning mobs kill you. The other issue was enemies so spongy you might as well be in a training ground waiting to shoot all your ammo. And despite it's faults the game felt good. Motion there feels fluid , superior to Space marine and many modern games by far. Climbing a mountain makes you really feel in that world.
I loved Hell's Gate. Not sure why a lot of people dropped out. Maybe for not the true feel of being in a MMO environment like WoW. Mostly I'm scared of WoW making head way and stealing all the subs like before, but with EC now having to do battle with Elder Scrolls Online the fight's going to be tough. Hope we have enough fans to stick with the game to keep it alive.
Brink had outstanding art direction and a good concept for gameplay, but suffered from bad realization of most of the features. While the characters and locations looked pretty nice, running and gunning felt awkward and crude, period. And that's what the game was about! Add to this plenty of bugs and you'll know why it failed.
Ya know it's funny, I ALMOST put Firefall on the list, but considering I don't even think it's out of BETA yet (I really can't tell it's been in so long, I've personally been in it forever), I decided not to. I thought they finally released, but then I thought I read the other day they were still in BETA. THAT game has made so many MAJOR changes it's not even funny. I was in late Alpha and all of Beta for WAR (and quite a few others) and saw that game make some pretty big changes, even close to launch (which delayed 6 mos because of some), but Firefall? That game is a hot mess. Maybe it's that they're in Open Beta instead of Closed now... I don't even have it installed atm. Controls were wonky, lot's of the mechanics were never really explained well or realized... yea. I'm sure it's better now, but *shrug* I haven't heard great things coming out. IN FACT, the last thing I read was they were taking the PVP out and making it PvE totally for now.
It is a big failure. E-sports set them back, then the constant overhaul from level system to world of tanks tech tree system towards the constraint system, then they stopped listening to use all the great ideas in the forums and went with what they felt was best. ------------------- General feedback here. They have been producing firefall as a game since 2006, and never came towards a conclusion of "this is what it is and will be", kept wasting money and almsot went bankrupt in 2010, they have been granted after a 20million dollar investment from Th9 chinese company and another recently 24million dollar investment and still are not even one step closer to finalizing what they showed us back in 2010 in the first video that was scripted. I was there since 2010 september and got into that 500 first testers only, it was great and it was close to being completed with the tweaks we said they should do but, for some reason they overhauled again and again...and they even had that "Coming 2011" commercial/trailer going, which they promptly excused them self´s for. There is a lot more one can get into and keep on talking but ill summarize some things one should have in mind. 1. Do not drop NDA until you feel and the testers that you got enough content and enough polished systems that are set in stone that this is it, in firefall the devs stomached to say "we made a mistake here". 2. Do not go into open beta prematurely make sure servers work and all interactions work as they should, you do not want a syncing issue if i open my inventory and have to wait 10 seconds for anything to spawn, and that it takes 5 seconds to sell 1 item or buy 1 item. Make sure it all is fluid and working stable, even though OPEN BETA is still considered beta on terms the open beta tag is more known as "your game is in the final stretch just a few months left before release at most, there is only server issues to handle by having a lot more people get out there and find any other problems that might have been overlooked. 3. Founders packages are fine though that is something if players want in order to support the game, and will receive goodies and other stuff. 4. I repeat do not monetize with a cash shop during beta and say "we want to see what people will spend on and then adjust prizes accordingly with real money, so we can make a REAL evaluation of how it is working and what people are spending on", the devs in firefall did jack shit in prizes it all remained the same as money was being poured into the cash shop transaction. 5. Many mistakes were made and for some reason "Red 5 studios - Firefall" deleted or locked old information so nobody can check back towards the older comments, just as point 4, that comment was sealed of with no way of finding it regarding the evaluation of prices and real money usage, and in some instances the moderators went with their own attitude and threads disappeared out in the thin air like they never existed, even to this day some posts are maliciously deleted without you knowing why, they do not give any reason except "we can delete it for any reason we want" and so and so forth, it is not the problem of deleting the problem is not typing why, it is very disrespectful. 6. They tried the same thing by showing what they were going for early on ideas and plans, "A LOT OF PROMISES" were made but they never saw the light because in the end it was tech limitations and they had to go back on many decisions. I spent money on a game i believed in, i truly did they were veterans from many other games as well seemed like a great bunch of people, family guys with jobs who were not stuck up, friendly bunch even gave beta keys for alcohol, it was pretty funny and unusual but it just showed they are what they are human down to earth guys. Oh how it all falls downhill, for many months i have watched the articles in many news sites and the comments are always "BAD" and firefall even get guest spots as "Do not do it like these did", in gaming articles regarding how to do beta, how to monetize, and so and so forth. You want to know what to not to do? look at firefall and make sure when your thinking about something like the big steps, take a good look at that game and see how they did wrong and did not listen to their community warning them, to not drop NDA to not drop the CBT tag because it was to early. But the experience of it all being there, invaluable.
WOW! Now that's some serious feedback! I must say, you're far more dedicated than I, at least when it came to Firefall. If I get the privilege of getting into and Alpha/Beta I try to stick with it as long as possible, but when I see the Dev's either not making "right choices" continually or the game is just "bad" from the start (sorry, but some just are) it's hard to keep pushing through. I try not to use them as a "free preview" to games (which most kiddes seem to think Betas are anymore), but in some ways, much of it is due to some of what you mentioned above; that's on the Dev's for their current practices. Hell, I remember when ya got "paid" to be a tester let alone PAYING to get in. And I went up hill both ways in the snow... in EQ1... on foot... on my 300bps modem... =P
