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WHat is wrong with carmine assent

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by NoU, Jul 15, 2018.

  1. NoU Recruit

    WHy is carmine assent so inbalanced and why do i keep spawning in the middle of enemies or die instantly from a tank spawncamping, which that never happen on other maps?? Also why do i have to run so far to get to the next point and who decided that it would be a good idea to have all ways so eassy to defend?? I noticed that the textures are wierd all over the map, like decorations are part in ground or cut off by other bits of the structure. It's so much worse than all the other maps.
    It needs to be fixed or removed soon.
    Data8671 likes this.
  2. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    I guessyou aren't actually asking "why" but:

    On A, you are limited to advancing by 3 chokepoints all against high-ground and closely connected to the one, central location the enemy has to hold. This is the pinnacle of a general, major problem on EC-maps: Defensive positions, objective points and defender spawns are all too close to each other.

    B is actually slightly better, assuming your team can take out both quads quickly. However, taking the building requires either a very coordinated assault over one of the two less-known vectors or jump-assault-spam. For the most part, people don't get that lone-wolfing on ground-level isn't getting them anywhere.

    C suffers from the same problems as A to a lesser degree. The new flank and closer attacker-spawn make it possible to take but its still very hard to do without a time surplus from another point. Essentially, the attacker has to be able to get upstairs, actually dig in and produce a continuous, close-quarter-combat scenario.

    Jbregg is a QA-dev who taught himself to make maps. The problem is: You can make a map that looks great in theory and should be really fun to play but you can not forsee the player-dynamics on it, at least not fully. A doesn't work because everyone just camps the objective-room. In the test-runs, we had fights all over the building and A usually fell with 5 minutes surplus or more. It also doesn't help that a lot of these playtests lack attendance and you basically have to take a 5v5 and extrapolate from it how the map might work with more players.
    DrDooManiC and JojoKasei like this.
  3. You have to understand that most other maps are in the game for almost two years by now, and have gotten tons of fixes. I have no idea how many weird textures, invisible obstacles etc. I alone commited for fixing. Carmine Ascent and Promethium Mine are the newest maps, so naturally they have the most flaws/bugs to sort out. If you notice weird textures, invisible obstacles, etc., just make a screenshot and send it to jbregg, he will fix it.
  4. Teef Trooper909 Recruit

    Its made by an amateur mapper and should not be in game that's whats wrong with it.
    Data8671 likes this.
  5. Lord Ravagerx Deadknight Well-Known Member

    good for defending but very very bad for attackers

    make Carmine a pve map
    JojoKasei likes this.
  6. Lucius Vinicius JojoKasei Arkhona Vanguard

    That could work like a charm, tbh...if someone can make it work, which I doubt (buttons?).
    But IF, it would just be the fun side without the unfun-side.
    Data8671 likes this.
  7. Zael Zael Well-Known Member

    The devs cannot just use a PvP-map for PvE. The algorithm for Tyranid-behavior is tied to the map.
  8. The unfun side: When you see your transports are actively taken out, change squad, walk away and complain about the map on the forum?!
    Atsidas likes this.
  9. Sunbreak Sunbreak Subordinate

    I don't really have a problem with Carmine, it could do with a few tweeks but overall it feels how a defensive fortification should, hard to assault, requires reaction to defenders positions and team work. However I've won and lost as both attacker and defender fairly evenly.

    The video doesn't show anything wrong other than one bit of clipping terrain which you hit once with the plasma, then shot at the same point again. And the lack of people working together (lots of friendly fire and lone wolves)
    Point A to a standard fortress point is just dull, why not just have one map and all play the same thing. It requires some thinking but there are plenty of attack avenues including the usage of jump troops from the top floor.

    Carmine Assault does require coordinated strikes and team work, that's the problem I think. Your video just shows little team work and constant arguing.

    Things to fix: A few spawning errors. Some texture improvements. then I see two ways to make it easier.

    On the fixing of the defensive points I guess look at the win-loss ratio overall to see how it performs in comparison to the other maps. If it is skewed in the defenders favor there is an easy fix of: reducing the lives available at A and B by 10. Quiet often it's a close timing and having 20 less lives overall would make it easier on the attackers.
    The longer fix would be to add an additional assault route to A and B points. Point C has 4 entrances I can think of by ground troops and 1 by jump troops only, which is plenty for a last stand location, the room is rather open so once you've got a beach head you can clear the room rather easily. A could do with a ground assault point to the top story, possibly with a long run so it's not just a spammed route. B is a difficult one, as a defender it already has multiple attack points including from above. Long ranged attackers can snipe from the turret emplacement, and the bank up to C into the area, so I'm not sure where an additional attack point would go.

    It's not a perfect map but just porting in other zones is not the way to go, at least it's original and requires some different behaviors from normal.
    Atsidas likes this.
  10. Point A has that very sweet window which is a perfect attack point for jump classes, in the floor north of the cap room. You end up right in the back of the defenders overwatching the northwestern stairs. But somehow I never saw anyone use it. It's a good example of why that map sometimes is so hard for attackers - most people just don't really know it. It's easier to defend when you don't know where to go.

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