Anybody trying to advocate the 'purist approach' in MMOs and at the same time saying that subscriptions are the only way to provide the well- being of the game and players has no validity in my (and I guess not only mine) eyes, sorry Mozalbete, time to wake up and open your eyes.
It makes no sense to talk about proofs here, just like it makes no sense to talk about using the scientific method. I have given plenty of reasons and indicators that you completely ignore. There are no proofs here, and they seem to be the only thing you talk about. I have bad news for you. by the way, nothing you say is going to become more valid with a link. If there is something you want to point out, do it directly Those events happened. That is a fact. It's objective information. Cash shops locking content unless you pay is a fact. The negative reaction to having less content is also a fact. The convenience of more people using a cash shop for developers is also a fact. How there are no MMOs with a cosmetics only shop is also a fact. Again, you think about proofs that make no sense here. If there are other ways to get a valuable item, the item stop being valuable. An item stop being impressive if everyone can just buy it for $5. Giving it as a reward gives players satisfaction and something that others will admire. I think the true meaning of your appearance is specially important in W40K. Less content for the game and promotes bad practices. Turns the game into buy to play, and then keep paying
If it makes no sense to talk about proofs, then it makes no sense to talk. Period. Then everything you said up to this point is absolutely nothing but speculation. You keep on admitting this and yet still somehow believe that you are correct. You flat out state that you cannot be proven correct and that due to the impossibility of proving what will happen, you can only believe that this will happen due to it having happened before. You know what that is? An assumption What everyone was calling you out for in the first place. And while mentioning the fallacies doesn't discredit your argument itself, it most certainly discredits the presentation of said argument. If your reasoning was fallacious, you must find another argument to back up your statements. And still you completely fail to provide the path from A to B. Please do explain why this makes it fundamentally impossible to create a better cash shop for a game in the future. This is why people are calling your argument an assumption. This is what people keep asking you to explain. This is entirely true. However none of that says why cosmetics must be available outside a cash shop. It is a very compelling argument for why they should and can provide a very good debate, however. How is it less content if it's in the game either way? More importantly, how is it less content if that something would never have been made because it didn't fit in the initial production queue and would not have subsequently been made because it couldn't be profited from later on? Also we really should define "bad business practices" in this context, because at its simplest a cosmetic cash shop is simply the digital equivalent of a clothing shop. Someone made a shirt, you bought the shirt. Someone made a digital shirt, you bought a digital shirt. Bad business practices can be attached to both digital and physical commerce and we need clarification in this department.
You keep thinking that everything is about proofs, and it isn't. If I put a 50kg steel ball over your head for 5 seconds, held with a rather weak string, there is no proof that the string will break. If I don't respect any traffic rule, there is no proof that anything bad will happen. And so on. Proofs aren't they only thing with value in real life. Because common sense exists. And probability. Those two are far, far more used and relevant than proofs. Saying "it's an assumption, I will ignore anything you say" isn't going to lead you anywhere. when you say "it's an assumption" I will just answer "call it the way you want, nothing I said changes". The people who want that path must be really desperate if they have to talk about proofs of future events. There were no "proofs" that the Old Republic would fail, but it did. There are many reasons people pointed out. But no proof. That's what your obssession with proofs leads to: to make people ignore common sense with a lame excuse. I don't see why you use "must" in a technical sense when I'm clearly using it in a moral sense. If there are no microtransaactions, the same amount of content will be made, but there won't be a part behind a wall. Microtransactions don't give developers magical extra motivation that allows them to make more content in the same time. Content can and should be made because it adds quality. Remember when developers tried to make money with quality? You seem to have forgotten. Bad business practices in this context are practices that lead to unnecessary unhappiness of the users. I have to go now, so I hope there is not a sudden wave of people criticising my critique
Actually no, that can be pretty easily proven with science through examining the strain the string in question can take and comparing it to the weight of the ball.
I'm not saying that I am ignoring you just because you made an assumption. I am saying that your assumption lacks argumentation that would make it reasonable. I fully understand why you would think that a cash shop is more likely than not to turn pay2win. We all understand. This is why this thread exists in the first place.This is why the devs are willing to modify their proposals to fit the views of the public as seen in this very thread. Also "must" does not exist in a moral sense. Must cannot be used in a subjective statement. If even a single person has a logical disagreement for your statement then clearly it is a statement of "should", not "must". In any case this part of the argument is completely pointless now that what you're getting at has been clarified because now that I see what you were really pursuing with this line of inquiry, I can safely just inform you that Miguel already said there will be rewards for dungeons and campaign victories that are precisely there for those that seek such trophies and will not be available in the cash shop. You can still enjoy them even if you also buy cash shop cosmetics for the same reason that you can still enjoy a sports trophy even if you bought the shelf you keep it on from Ikea. The cash shop does not have to invalidate the idea of cosmetic rewards for achievement just as said cosmetics won't invalidate earned vanity items. Common sense is not an emotionally charged, apocalyptic statement. You exhibit the latter while thinking you are exhibiting the former. Holding a steel ball over my head on a string is not the same as first telling me that the ball is being made to be safe and filled with helium, and that the string is actually made of reinforced alloys. In your analogy, this thread is closer to the latter than the former.
no, the "tortanic" have a lot of argomentation, concrete motivation and evidence "proof" that the fail was inevitable.
I am not sure if by this comments are still being read by the devs since the conversation has derailed into an argument. A valuable argument but an argument none the less. I will give my 2 cents either ways. I believe that a subscription based game is the safest way to build an MMO now given the circumstances of this MMO in particular where its an on-going pvp war zone at all times. The satisfaction of your payment will not translate well into the system. I will use examples: Subscription Models that work- Final Fantasy 14:ARR The game grows horizontally until a level cap and then has a vertical growth based on Item levels. The game continues to grow horizontally by expanding on the story line you went through to reach your top level. Therefor when you pay your monthly subscription you reap the benefit of this story continuing, they update the game every three months. The game then reaches a pinnacle of vertical growth and an expansion is made where it creates a soft reset and you start the same thing all over again. As long as the content is entertaining you will continue to play this game. World of Warcraft Same things as FF14 they each have their own unique traits inside game and small differences but it is your basic subscription platform and it works. Proven by the fact that both MMOs currently have subscriptions in the millions. Free to play models that work- League of Legends The community might not be the best thing around but we are talking about game models here. This model works it is a free to play game that does not accommodate a pay to win motto. The things you pay for a solely aesthetic. You can not upgrade items or champions to make them better than their original base. The difference here is that you do not live in a world where your toon is always a certain level. This game is purely pvp and the grow is accompanied by hard reset as in everytime you play a game/match you start from scratch again. DOTA This game is also very similar to LoL and they actually employ a very nice method of F2p. Most of the things that are sold, are player created aesthetic upgrades to your favorite champs. Being that the 40k fan is very much into customization, I would say this might be something you guys want to look into. I would very much like to create my own models and textures. Again, players can not buy items or abilities that make you better than the base. I do not have all the answers but I have taken the time to list some game models that work in perspective to what you are trying to build. If this game will have some in-depth lore and story that takes you to an end game format which has horizontal and vertical growth, in which then you will be in on-going war all out pvp at end-game then I believe that this should be a subscription based game in which one can then "raid" dungeons to find relics and thus use relics to improve their pvp stats, weapons, armor etc.. This will give an opportunity for people that are dedicated to be better off then people that are not and for a respectable reason. You may add microtrans for things such as SM factions or Eldar factions textures or different animations or models for chainswords or power weapons. Maybe different executions. On the other hand if you are going to take the vertical growth only approach and only have a perpetual spawning ground of carnage you can apply the same method of microtrans and still be a model that is not pay to win. Though I would think that a game reflecting planetside can get pretty boring without any kind of story and lore to back it up. Especially when this universe has SOO much lore to create anything with. TL;DR: I would love to have a subscription based model with a story arc leading into a war-zone of an end-game, that perpetually grows with patches and expansions. All micro transactions should be purely aesthetics and should not involve any improvement of base stats or weapons and/or anything that modifies balance in game.
when a game increase item level is vertical progression: you item are simply better. Horizontal progression mean that your weapon and your character don't become stronger but simply, different, have more option more skill, more specialization: but the power is equivalent.
When you increase in levels it is a Vertical progression. When you reach a Level Cap the only way to grow is Horizontally. This is achieved by raising Item Levels. The growth is horizontal because you have grown vertically as much as the game allows and therefore can only grow sideways at that point. Sry bud it's the other way around. When you grow vertically you have more skill and more specialization because you now raise in levels therefore granting you more abilities that unlock via leveling.
