Eh I didn't meant as in long range. Just slightly longer than my Lunge. Right now if I'm in scream range I'm also in Charge Attack/Lunge range.

I like the idea of consuming Stamina to Sprint even faster. That'd be certainly solidify its position.

I'm not sure any of the healer classes could be described as op (apothecary is close due to being able to go ranged or close) - not on their own.
It's the fact that when so many people go healer it creates an extremely hard to kill blob - and when the healers are as good at killing as the any other class, there is no reason not to take them with the exception of needing to cap.

The reason sorcerers get singled out is down to 2 main reasons.
1 - sorcerers stand out like a sore thumb (especially while healing), so if there are a lot of them people do notice!
2 - csm work together well - on defence maps if someone says we need healers; a lot of players will pick healers. If someone makes the same suggestion on Lsm; everyone ignores them! (In pug matches).


Healer classes will always be a tough one balance wise.
You only have to look at Battlefields time honoured tradition of medic trains to see it's not just an EC phenomenon.
The medic train isn't unbeatable; but it's a very tough tactic to counter.

Unfortunately you have to make the class less killy/tanky. Making it harder to get kills with is the usual way, but in the case of sorcerers it's not their ability to kill which creates the problem - it's their ability to resurrect everything you kill from a distance!
So they're left with making them squishier to make them harder to use effectively.

I think it's a necessary move just to dissuade those who pick healer for the wrong reasons.
Hopefully they'll have a play with all the healers abilities too as both painboy and sorcerer while effective, just feel lacklustre.
Apothecary is a already in a good place.
Warlock I haven't tried at all yet so couldn't comment.

You know what used to control that? Plasma Cannon.

You didn't see these cluster fuck, cross healing melee squads back then. The PC is still decent, in fact I even had a 31 kill game with it 2 days ago so it's clearly still doing work.

However it can no longer multi-kill like it used to and hell, I've seen Orks and sometimes even CSM survive direct hits with it. It also leaves downed states now when it didn't used to, queue all of the lovely ranged healing abilities and suddenly breaking the defense becomes a chore because no one stays dead heh.

yeah i agree with your observations, but im not sure about the conclusion; the core issue is a deeper one:
How far does the influence of the devs need to go?
They can try and steer the players into the direction they want em to play, we can already see that in the maps: where the vehicles are allowed to go, where you can or can not brace as a havoc, etc.

Right now it's pretty much a tight control, imo at least, id be more interested to see this develop more organically.
if there's a healer train, let players figure out how to counter it, before immediately resorting to nerfing down a class.

Funny you bring up Battlefield, creator of Heal Tacs.
There used to be separate assault and medic class in the game. Then they said fuck it, everyone is a Medic Assault. I'm glad they are trying to differentiate in EC.

I liked the medic of CoD2, the shotgun and syringe dude.
Close quarters you can defend, but out in the open mid to long range you'd be screwed.

I don't mean to make it a banshee thread it's just where my experience lies. When I first started eldar I was pushing DA, DR and HB lines and the banshee just sucks. It's one advantage is stamina but any eldar class can get 3 stam which to me is that sweet spot. Banshee scream is terrible and they are no faster than other Eldar forces so I quickly dropped HB for warlock.

Warlocks are just as good in melee (again banshees failing not warlocks op) and give me the ability to keep the team going (ontop of my love of Ulthwe playing a psyker is a plus)

Improve the banshee and you will see more of them, if firing screams into a line worked like the JPAs landing stun they would be amazing at hitting a line. Or again if they had a cooldown driven faster sprint to get into melee instead of being shot to crap on the way in? Awesome.

I don't have much xp as csm my only reluctance is their access to PFists and capture keys but still i see few GAs there

In many ways I agree - there is too much nerfing because of complaints.
Most things can be worked around by using tactics - a little thought and cooperation goes a very long way.

In the case of Battlefields medic train - specifically BC2 medic trains - they had the lmg one of the best weapons.. there was no reason not to go medic unless a tank turned up!
The devs didn't do a thing about it - players still used to beat the medic train; with enough toys anything is possible..

However you have to look at the initial decision, to give a class that can revive and heal a big ruddy machine gun that outperforms most other guns!

So I do agree that you can always (as a player) get round cheap tactics (sometimes by using cheap tactics!).
However in a game where you should need a balanced mix of classes to succeed, it shouldn't be possible to go as a blob of one class and do the same.


So while I say I think the changes are necessary, what I mean is- they may help.


As said I don't like sweeping balance changes (as per the current UAT build).
I'm more of a fan of watching for a while and then just tweaking one thing at a time.

I'm also not a fan of the battlefield method, which is change fuck all unless the outcry reachest social media they can't censor

Yes Eldar pistols are utter crap in comparison, and yet all the normalization going on this has yet to be addressed or even mentioned.

That's the thing about Banshee's they have right, they are super fragile, more so than the other melee options (Warlock / Scorp), and in TT you never put them on the front line until you are within striking distance with them as they are just a free kill because they are that squish. Flip side is though that they are extremely lethal in melee and eviscerate anything they come into contact with, and that includes terminators. Pretty much same applies to any other lore on them though there isn't much.

Scorpions ARE heavy armor support that is stealthy, and they should definitely have staying power, though melee is better suited for the fleshly non heavily armored opponents, and excel at putting them down.

Does their scream not increase damage enemies take anymore?
I am a bit out of date on that.

Went from a Tactical game where everyone is a cog in the machine - to ZEEERRRGGGG EVERYONE IS RAMBO.
Makes me cry inside