the problem is give the MAIN gun to the driver.
the storm bolter to the driver? ok
the main gun? NO!!

Keep in mind I started writing the last reply before you wrote your next post about balance > TT/lore Wyz, so firstly apologize for jumping the gun. Sorry about that, work calls >.< However one core principle remains the same with comparing EC to those other games:

If you don't use a mic and actively avoid team play you are pretty much fuuuuuucked. This isn't the game for lone wolves. It isn't primarily a shooter/sim, it's an MMO and it's being built around social interactivity and reliance/contribution within a team. I mean you can try it, and the automated Machine Spirit and personal vehicle RP pool is there for those who want to lock the vehicle from random nubs, but it's so far outside the game's social parameter to go it alone I just don't see them bending over backwards to accommodate anything but more team-play development.

That theme has been implied and expressly state in a number of Dev responses re: vehicles too.

Honestly the idea of 3 man for Predator is really growing on me.

And since we both disagree on each others points but agree with 3 man... I think we got a winner here.

Considering that people have been comparing the Razorback and Five Man Predator..

Wouldn't the Razorback be several points of different:

1: Be cheaper because it's a lighter armored vehicle

2: Be faster for the same reason

3: Be about two to three people shooting while at the same time providing a decent transport

Actually we should just have a two man base predator: Starts with just the base configuration like the tabletop, Autocannon/Lascannon with driver, with other options being buyable wargear, adding for a third to fifth member to enter into it.

It'd be more expensive, but then we have people with the cheap AV13 walls and more powerful gun platforms.

Also Chaos doesn't have land speeders (not without being renegade or stealing them anyways)

I would be OK with a 3-man Predator if and only if they removed the sponsons. Which is a valid Predator configuration, by the way.

Otherwise we'd be giving 4 guns to 3 people, and that's too much of a population multiplier. Especially since it would make one-man tanks a little too effective.

Remember, population is a resource too.

I think one way to get around it would be to not include the crew in the Razorback/Rhino's transport capacity. This would widen the gap between their capacity and the Predator's.

The Predator would have 5, the Razorback would have 8 (driver+gunner+6 passengers), the Rhino would have 12 (driver+gunner+10 passengers).

Though later on that policy might cause problems for the Chimera if we're using the F-keys to change seats, since that would give the Chimera a total of 14 (driver+gunner+12) and the Land Raider... let's see... driver+2 sponsons+top gun+12... 16, or 17 if the front hull gun is a separate seat.

Depending on how much a typical loadout is carrying around though, we could use 1-6 for weapons/equipment and then 7-0, -, and = for seat positions higher than 12.

Or maybe we could do some code magic so that the game treats the entire passenger compartment as a single "seat", and just assigns you the first available slot when you switch to it. Let's face it, do you really care which unarmed passenger seat you end up in? Crew positions are the only ones where the exact seat actually matters.

Doing it that way would allow us to have a theoretically unlimited number of passenger slots without having to worry about binding keys to them.

This guy just doesn't budge does he?

Some people just can't be reasoned with. If you were truly a 40K fan you'd understand a Razorback is a troop transport. And you'd also understand that the Predator is iconic and needs to be in the game.

The Rhino comes with upgrades that are of a battlefield command nature, while a Razorback comes with upgrades of a Fire Support nature, that's where the difference primarily lies. Also a Rhino is designed to carry up to 10 soldiers stuffed into it, while a Razorback can only fit 5.


And for the record, someone mentioned "Machine Spirit" somewhere, forgot where it is (too tired to look it up right now) but yeah, seriously? In a Predator? *facepalm*

The "Machine Spirit" as a physical object is a highly complex very intricate A.I located in a Land Raider. It allows for the "machine" to act autonomously without a crew OR drive itself OR gun itself, which often at their center have an artificial or cyborg brain. Almost the same as a deamon trapped in a chaos engine.

The other "AI" computers which auto-aim and fire which are of a primitive nature are programs running in code on Cogitators (which is what computers are in the 41st millennium). A Cogitator can auto-pilot a vehicle, it can auto-aim weapons based on pre-programmed responses to situations and conditions, but it is incapable of intelligent decision making on the fly.

To be honest, it would be impossible for the developers to simulate a Machine Spirit when I think about it. but it's all semantics...

Last time I checked the Razorback carried 6. But like I said, we could make it more "transporty" by making it so those 6 don't include the driver and gunner. So it'd have a total of 8 seats, 2 crew, 6 passengers.

Which I would assume crew are separate from passengers anyway. Otherwise how is the Razorback still driving around and supporting the 6 guys who just got out?

And it used to be buyable wargear for everything down from land raiders to the Rhino, Tech priests can now even give it to everything in the shooting phase. Do remember the lore has drastically changed for the "Machine Spirit" and even now it could be considered either an advanced AI or just basic code in a vehicle, or an actual 'spirit of the machine'

And even then that's not right because it's said that "Every" advanced bit of technology has a sort of Machine Spirit, not just the Land Raider.

Don't forget the shootable hatches for Rhino, you can shoot out guns from inside it and all.

That actually is one of the passengers though, once your passengers disembark there is nobody to shoot out of that hatch. The reasoning for the driver and storm bolter gunner not counting towards the 10 passengers, is that when 10 passengers get out the Rhino can still drive and shoot the storm bolter.

Thus, there must still be 2 people in there after the squad of 10 got out.

That would be me repeating Nicolas

I do remember when it was purchasable for most things, but whatevs. A.I targeting is something they're looking at.