Tbh I dont think they are too strong. Been using a basic bolter lately and I have much faster kills fast clicking single shots on that than I do a shoota. I think too many people on non ork factions are just holding down lmb and wondering why they are losing fights to an enemy with a gun designed for hold lmb fights.
I'm not sure what the gun my shoota uses is called but it acts like a machine gun and has some pretty wild shots. I've taken down many a LSM with it, especially if they advance towards me from a distance. I can't use it near friendlies in melee with an opponent as I would most likely hit them both.
Ork melee is pretty strong. Not sure who you're losing to or why. Because they do hurt like hell when they hit people. They still 2 shot in a lot of cases. Even the shootas have good melee weapons. But their melee doesn't need a nerf. I'd argue it's in a decent spot. Their accuracy is still pretty rediculous. I don't see walls of dakka when I had hoped to, so fighting indoors or in the many cramped spaces that have less than 40m LoS make them quite difficult to deal with the dakka. I kinda hope that if anything gets changed, it's just the accuracy of most Ork weapons.
Rodeo shoota. It's all over the place with a high firerate. I really hope this isn't something the orkz will expand upon. Sure, it's lore-thematic, but there is such a massive drawback to fighting indoors even if you fire twice as many bullets as a boltgun and going in wildly different directions. You can't help out other orkz in melee. You'll get far less DPS than everyone else (and that's with twice the firerate, we don't even get that now with rodeo so we'll not get it if that's a future design path). Atm, the recoil and accuracy is still the worst in the game, baring something like Ace Dakka so I don't know what @Demetri_Dominov is on about (nor with melee, its the weakest melee faction?). It's far easier to dislodge a big group of orkz sitting on a point that it is to face a group of marines or chaos marines, only Eldar are easier to remove. Ork range is decent, somewhat, but its only the third best faction at ranged in the game.
Orks weakest melee faction? Did you ever play a good ol' Tac who was charged by an Ork? It got better some patches ago, but I can tell you how that was back then: 1) Sigh in resignation. 2) Shoot that big shroom fervently. 3) See that he still runs straight towards you. 4) Begin to laugh and cry at the same time. 5) Shoot it. More. 6) See the shroom has reached you now and consider to redeploy... 7) ...but notice it's too late, eat 2 hits in 1 sec and die without any options. And yes, that was during the "your weapon always breaks even if you win" time, which really contributed to point (7). Like I said, it got better and, well, melee vs melee (as opposed to melee vs ranged) is the part where you can truly rate quality, but I don't see how Orks are the weakest faction for melee. I haven't played them much, but that bit was imo enough to prove that they are in fact pretty good at melee. My little preset-boy chopped several GAs and TAs for good. Of course they need some help with animations and bugfixes, but the foundation does not have to be rebuilt. However if you mean Orks do not feel orky, here are some ideas (scrambled together from my memories on a thread that contained such stuff and some thoughts at this very moment): Numbers are just ideas, so please don't use them as a string to hang me. 1) Reduce their base armor by [X]. 2) Increase their base HP by [X] (or maybe [X+10]). 3) Give them either some level of out-combat regeneration (and an item for combat-regeneration to unlock in the advancement-tree) or 10% lifesteal (from my experience 10% is not all that much, but can occasionally keep you going for a little longer). 4) Increase ranged weapon recoil by 20% and spread by 10%; increase damage by 10% for ALL melee weapons. 5) Make WAAAGH a buff that can be triggered like the Banshee scream, but only when 3+ Orks yell it at the same time and with a cooldown of 2 minutes for all Orks that receive the buff (means all within 50m); it increases damage dealt by 10% and reduces damage taken by 10% for 10 seconds.
Powerswords trump everything, so right there CSM and LSM have the advantage. They also have greater reach, that is, their weapons cover more ground and so often hit more easily/often. Indeed, you can run away from a non-waagh RMB spamming ork, but not from anything else. Eldar have somewhat access to powerswords too, and I believe (but not 100%) that they've a reach advantage on Orkz as well. Admittedly, it's not as big of a difference compared to Eldar as it is to the marine factions, but orkz are at the bottom when it comes to melee. That's a serious nerf to the worst faction in the game. Thank you? Think about it for a minute. You can never really snipe anything ever again, and Orkz already suffer the most here. The accuracy go way down, and its already the worst in the game too (well, besides DR shuriken cannons unbraced). In effect, you can't support your allies in melee. You can't do anything worthwhile in range, which means you get outshot everywhere, and for this orkz should get a tiny 10% bonus to melee? Even the 10% won't make them top 1 melee faction, more like 3rd, and it will move the orkz from the 3rd best ranged faction to the 4th. Really, if we want to be faithful to lore, follow that example but give the orkz something like, and not exaggerating here, 6 times the rate of fire on all of their weapons. Not being able to help allies is a massive drawback, as is not being able to do anything at range, so that should "cover it". Although, it won't be very fun to play with or against most likely.
I understand the feeling behind this thread. I've been playing orks for months and they are actually effective but... they are not the melee faction. We are the pistols faction. Our melee are just the same as the others but given the huge amount of power weapons and high-pen weapons in the game our toughness trait just feels non-existent. We do not have any real advantage in melee. The most effective weapon I've used so far is a modded big shoota. It's so accurate it doesn't even feel like an orks gun.
I'm so incredibly, INCREDIBLY SICK of idiots from other factions claiming our tacticals(shootas) are better at melee. This is flat out wrong in literally every way you can possibly think of, and they have the gall to come into the Ork forum and spout bullshit, lies and misinformation to continue justification for nerfing the worst faction in the game again because they're not winning 100% against them yet. Here's the list, for all you people, of the ways you are wrong and an idiot about ork melee: 1: Shootas Fist weapons are exactly the same in every way possible to the Marine Knife 2: Orks only have +30 total hp, but marine hp getting +20 regenerating armor means marines have higher effective hp and are actually harder to kill over the course of a match. 3: In melee, damage in such large numbers orks are exactly the same as anyone else in regards to TTK and life expectancy despite +30 hp (only +10 total hp over marines i.e. 1/3 bullets worth). 4: Ork melee does not cover the same ground as marine melee in any instance or any weapon, including knife 5: Ork melee does not turn as fast with auto-lock as marine melee in any instance or any weapon, including knife 6: Ork melee attacks are vertical or diagonal hits, not sweeping strikes sideways strikes like marines meaning it's harder for orks to hit multiple enemies or enemies moving around to the side in all instances and all weapons, including knife 6: Ork 110 pen fist weapon costs 150LP. Marine 110 pen knife costs 60LP. YUP LITERALLY 60% CHEAPER FOR MARINES FOR NO REASON Off topic of tacticals but i'll keep going 7: Ork power klaw literally twice as slow as marine power fist with exact same stats and cost otherwise 7a: Ork power klaw also travels half the distance of the power fist 8: Ork JPA has a much larger profile and far more easy to shoot and kill than marine JPA 8a: Ork JPA also has a louder boost noise than marine JPA 9: Ork have no power sword 10: Ork power maul is a unique with no chance to mod the weapon 11: Ork unique melee weapons are unique only in their worthlessness: 11a: Git prod has 25 durability breaking on any failed RPS 11b: burny choppa is a chainsword (marine fire weapon is a power maul) 11c: See #6 for knife unique 11d: Torpedo axe boosts air slam damage (lol) 11e: power klaw unique has vehicle hull leech(40%) (also lol) 12: Painboy cannot field anything but the syringe/pistol, apothecaries can run chainsword AND syringe AND Pistol I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting. At this point if you're losing to an ork player 1 on 1 either he's an incredible player or you're trash(possibly both) because there's no reason to lose a fair fight against someone who's starting off at such a massive disadvantage. And before you mention win/loss ratios, it is in fact the truth that ork players are that much better. Play non-stop for months down upwards of 10 players because the game doesn't give you teammates and you either got damn good at the game or ragequit. Orks win despite being their race. LSM win because of their race.
