Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DAG, May 23, 2014.
I think this is completely fair!
the game don't have level, or equipment level: all equipment is sidegrade, so there isn't a tank overall better to find in the game.
Imagine a game similar to planetside 2 where only founder can use a certain weapon or tank.
Why not, if people are dead set on wanting a unique-gameplay element for Founders, just use them as a test bed for new game elements before it goes public aka a test-server that has no effect on the general population at large and then the only extra those founders would have is that little extra experience on the new elements depending on their own participating level. But the reliability of using just founders as the test on that is sort of iffy based on numbers. But anyway its just an idea.
As long as it doesn't unbalance gameplay in any way, then us footslogs are ok.
That's the problem you cant have balanced gameplay if some players have access to ''exclusive gameplay content'' while regular buyers dont. If those were like some extra sotry missions that would be ok.
But we are talking about vehicles and weapons that are better in certain situations than other veh/weapons. And they cant be acquired simly by playing the game for others + this is PvP game....
If tis is not P2Win then I dont know what is. This thing is threatening to kill the game completely its completely unacceptable and I dont know why there is even a vote about this.
Miguel and rest of the guys need to rethink this idea seriously, this is not a good sign on what we can except once game is live.
That's not the point, in fact that doesn't even has to be a problem exclusive doesn't mean better, the problem is that no company should punish a customer that buys the game at day 1 or 100, "pre order the game in pre alpha and get an exclusive mission" "buy a 700$ season pass and we may release a couple of map packs and 2 new skins" and stuff like that is getting more and more common in the industry and as consumers we shouldn't accept that (look at Watch Dogs and his 9 different collector editions, fucking ridiculous), the big problem is not a weapon or a vehicle being better, the problem is them being more fun to use.
After reading through the opening post with the ideas for the Founder's Packs and the many mixed answers to Yes's, Okay's but be careful and No's up to page 11, I decided to vote myself for 'Okay but be careful' and here is why.
*Taps the Warhammer 40,000 Space Marine, Chaos Space Marine, Eldar and Orks Codexs.*
If a regular player doesn't have access to EVERYTHING (excluding named characters) in these books, I will be a lot less interest to invest my time into this game. This applies to all races that'll be added into the game as a playable race.
Attack Bikes aren't limited in the game so every Space Marine player should have access to them, Rhinos already come with anti-infantry weapons like Storm Bolters and have the option to take a Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter and Pintle-mounted Hunter Killer (one use only) and shouldn't be limited or have a high advantage against infantry/vehicles because they are already in use.
Dark Technology/pre-Heresy in the 31st Millennium when the God-Emperor himself was still walking among men and a leading the Great Crusade to reunite Mankind under one banner. The Space Marine Legions had some deadly weaponry and vehicles in their arsenals but came with a price, had lots of power but the technology itself was dangerous to use, came with a lot of risks. These are the types of stuff that beHaviour should be looking at, things that have clear advantages and disadvantages tied with the history.
I'll give two examples right from the Warhammer 40,000 Space Marine Codex, the newest edition for a Founder's Weapon, that is a piece of Dark Age Technology/pre-Heresy. Conversion Beamer and Grav-Weaponry.
Conversion Beamer"Conversion beam projectors fire a beam that induces a controlled subatomic reaction in the target, converting its mass into energy. The further away the target, the more deadly the blast, as the beam has time to grow in power. Conversion beamers are incredibly rare pre-Heresy artefacts, and their conversation and deployment is typically the responsibility of a Chapter's Master of Forge."(Pg. 120 Space Marine Codex, Master of the Forge only)^ Ideal for a 'Hero/Elite' Class. Grav-Weaponry"The secrets of grav-weaponry construction are known only to a precious few; their design is based upon the graviton weaponry many Legions employed during the Heresy, but those secrets are still locked away in the deepest vaults on Mars. Techmarines who show the greatest promise are entrusted with the scared binary psalms detailing the assembly and maintence of such weapons. In battle, grav-weaponry affects the local gravity field, using it's victim's own mass against them, an ordeal that will stun those it does not kill outright. Heavily armoured targets find themselves crushed as if by the mighty fist of the Emperor himself, while vehicles are left as crumpled, smoke belching wreaks."(Pg. 121 Space Marine Codex, Grav-weaponry have no effect on buildings)^ Ideal for early access to Founders then later released to everyone. Combi-Grav"This relatively rare combi-weapon variant incorporates a single-shot grav-gun, allowing the wielder a potent graviton attack when fighting is fiercest without sacrificing the bolter's formidable wrath."(Pg. 121 Space Marine Codex, Grav-weaponry have no effect on buildings)^ Ideal for Founders.
These are both pre-Heresy weaponry and clearly say what their strengths and weaknesses are. The Conversion Beamer, only used by the Master of Forge and is a powerful deadly weapon...only at maximum range, up close, it isn't as deadly. Grav-weaponry is a menace against the heaviest armoured infantry (like Terminators) and heavy vehicles (Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts) but it's effectiveness would be reduced on lighter armoured targets. No effect against buildings so they'd be useless in a siege when taking down a wall or a gate.
Other than that, I'd be against any stat-based item that would be only available to Founders that gives a in-game advantage over non-Founders and won't have access to at some point. Same applies to armours with bonuses and disadvantages like a specific type of Power Armour, gives **** but suffers ****.
Cosmetics on the other hand is a completely different story, a lot of games give out benefits of being a Founder and any of this that makes any player look freaking awesome among others like walking around in Mk III Iron Armour ( http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/mk3-3.jpg ) or storming the breach in Cataphractii Pattern Terminator Armour. ( http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/cataxebolt3.jpg )
Then wielding different pattern bolters like:
Phobos Pattern: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/phobos-bolters.jpg
Tigrus Pattern: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/tigris-bolters-revised.jpg
Umbra Pattern/Ferrox: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/Umbra-Bolters.jpg / http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/Umbra-Ferrox-Bolters.jpg
Though of course, there should be a bit of fairness so non-Founders get some awesome stuff too. =3
All in all, I don't mind the Founder's Program having a unique concept that shows players supporting the game with their own funding and being reward though to be fair to non-Founders, avoid any game-breaking advantages that Founders would get, just because they paid for it.
I've said it many times on various places in the forums and ill say it again here. Having the same net stats doesnt mean that a weapon or armor is balanced.
Take a bolter for example. If the regular bolter has 5/10 points in all stats like firepower, accuracy, and firerate. But the founders bolter trades firerate to 1/10 for the firepower to be 9/10 and then in game most situations favor firepower over firerate then it would be much more effective in a large portion of the game. And thus you could pay to have a much higher chance to win.
It's poor design that tries to dress up pay to win and I will not support this.
There are different sorts of Bolters that can use different ammunition. Stalker-pattern Bolter is a scope-bolter that is single shot round per pull of the trigger that deals a lot of damage. A good three to four rounds to the head and dead in terms of Warhammer 40,000 Space Marine's Multiplayer.
I'm fine with founders getting unique gameplay elements, you take a risk buying the product sight-unseen you get rewarded for it. I do like the idea of it being on a timer, 6 months might be too long. If it was shortened to 1 or 2 months but founders would continually get this perk as new things were released I think it would go better.
I see people complaining about these things being better in certain situations but forgetting that the balance comes from them being worse in other situations. This game is based around the very concept of asymmetrical balance, how is this any different at all?