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UAT - Testing / Playing with Devs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jbregg, Mar 30, 2017.


Are you interested in testing/playing with the Devs on the latest build?

  1. I'd want to play but not test.

  2. Not interested.

  3. Sign me up!

  4. I would be interested but the time of the test is an issue.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Far less range, and that's potential DPS. Hawks hit a lot more and there's far less you can do about them. A hawk will end up actually doing more damage overall.
    Even still that's only one potential advantage.
  2. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    How many times does it have to be said...... THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY COMPARABLE.

    There are only certain overarching things you can take into account when talking cross-balance with hawks and other jump-classes, and in doing so, you have to go into overall combat efficiency and ease of use.

    Stop comparing the melee capability of a JPA/Raptor/Stormboy to a Hawk's ranged capability, just like how you wouldn't compare a heavy-class to a melee class etc.
    The only things you can actually argue in the case of the Swooping Hawk, is it's overall features and to what extent they are over the top or in line with the class concept.
    For instance, being able to cross the map in less seconds than it takes to reload some of the weapons in EC, isn't exactly "balanced", but it's an element of the class that makes it unique, but is also hard to balance around without making changes that lead to the class being undesirable to play.. for instance, if you flew at run-speed, any and everyone would be able to shoot down hawks at any given moment because it would be so easy to hit a target that flies so slowly out in the open.
    But something like fuel regen is perfectly possible to balance, as that's when you're out of the "domain of utilization" for hawks, so if a hawk lands and doesn't know there's a melee class right next to them, they can't just instantly fly away as soon as they hear the "ding" from a charged attack unless they've specifically kitted their loadout with more fuel charges (i.e; building your loadout accordingly and adaptively).

    But if you're one that wants to have max survival stats, you're probably gonna have to give up that fuel or regen, because you chose to focus on other stats or maybe weapons and such. Prior to the fuel-regen change on UAT, hawks didn't have to worry about it, and could regen the fuel in almost the time it took to recover from the landing animation that you can't get out of regardless.

    The way the Hawk is gonna be balanced to some extent, is not to compare it to everything else, it's to address what is clearly over the top, instead of doing the basic buff/nerf of survival stats or damage as always (which just becomes a cycle or doing it back and forth again and again). Get it to a place where it has trade-offs justifying it's capabilities.
  3. And that is the fundamental flaw with Eldar in EC. They overstepped the boundaries of asymmetrical ballence. They are too different to be properly balanced.
    Now, I'm not saying that they should be reskinned Space Marines, what would be the point of that? What I am saying however, is they need to be brought roughly in line with the other factions. The abilities of a hawk are intrinsically powerful, and they are just flat out better than other JPA classes, and like @Mainfold said, they are not comparable. Major changes are needed beyond just simple balancing with numbers before Eldar are a good/fun/balanced faction.
  4. Deathwish Deathwish Well-Known Member

    We (the community) have already established that ranged combat is superior to melee. A hawk is a mobile sniping platform. JPA is not. Therefore hawk is superior by default.
    Schwifty likes this.
  5. Eagle 11 Eagle_11 Well-Known Member

    You dont say JPA need better flight mechanics but nerf Hawks.
    You dont say flexibler flight time limiting and flight speed increase for JPA but Hawks need flight time limiting and speed reducing.
    This is your problem.
    If anything should be done, its to bring JPA up closer on par with Hawks, not nerfing Hawk to abyss.
  6. Noooooooooo
    To make every jpa as annoying as hawk is bad
    With balancing you either make one thing weaker, or everything else more powerful. The first typically ends better.
  7. @jbregg
    why cut 10 armor from DA huh? you gonna add 225DPS bolter next patch, when even 190DPS is still good against eldar. Not it close to eldar ASC 250dps... but SM will have nurgle or whatever EHP they take.

    Aware of enhance? 25 wont make a big difference
  8. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    The tested bolters are not in the build.
  9. You mean the high rof, high recoil bolters?
  10. recoil isnt that HIGH if you put dampener grip and vertical compensator on it. Will be more like Galil from CS GO. Nothing about crazy recoil on vids.
    It might be in future

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