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UAT - Testing / Playing with Devs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jbregg, Mar 30, 2017.

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Are you interested in testing/playing with the Devs on the latest build?

  1. I'd want to play but not test.

  2. Not interested.

  3. Sign me up!

  4. I would be interested but the time of the test is an issue.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. I never said it's easy to use PF to immobilize a vehicle. @Mainfold said they have no option, all I said was that he's wrong. Not that it's a valid option.
  2. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    Immobilizer that requires vehicle to already be immobile, isn't really an immobilizer.... you're just arguing semantics for the sake of arguing
  3. Belphegor LordSloth Preacher

    This is the pot calling the kettle black, right? I mean you basically switch in every discussion the topic or scope as soon as you see that your point is beyond defendable. Afterall you were the one who brought up all this immobilizer and "in a certain scenario" shennenigan in the first place.

    Undisputeable facts are that every faction has the access to the very same tools with different strength to them. Alot of players who actually take a step back and dont want to be lost in the fine semantics of a powerfist beeing more or less efficient already admitted that LSM or CSM have no issue whatsoever to deal with vehicles effectivly (and i mean equally effective) either by Lascannon or by meltaweapons/bombs if the vehicles are not moving.

    The semantics you and some other posters always bring up is that a second player with another class would change the outcome or a third player or a fourth player while in reality nothing in EC is without counterplay. A hawk can't bomb if it gets shot down. A firedragon cant bomb if the vehicles moves etc. Same applies to the other side aswell. So it is moot to argue "in a certain scenario" because this scenario never exists and if it actually would exist and your team does not have the right answers despite having the tools for it you will lose and rightfully so because you got outplayed on a teamlevel. A concert of 3-4 enemy players playing perfectly together while not facing the same quality, organisation or determination on the other team should never surprise you as the obvious winner.
    You don't argue in LoL or other games if you are constantly forced in a 3 v 5 against a team which plays the objective and solid because your botlane does nothing, about the other side beeing OP.
    Krayt likes this.
  4. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    Good job missing the entire point
  5. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    You are all making this way too complicated.

    If you have no or insufficient counter-AV, you will lose your Rhino, every time and all the time.
    "Insufficient" meaning you will need at least as many players out there as Eldar have attacking you, usually around 3.
    If you do have sufficient counter-AV, you will be able to stop any Dragon on-foot. You will not be able to stop a Dragon in a Wave-serpent but you can take out the Wave-serpent rather easily in the same time it takes to take out your Rhino.
    Its a 1-1 trade: fair.

    Now, despite the fact that you usually play insufficient counter-AV, the problem is that the defender gets to pick.
    They can play AV to their terms and force you to either wait around or potentially miss them.
    Yeah, that sucks. It isn't really an Eldar-thing tho.

    The interesting bit is that when two other factions fight, it often takes much longer for any Rhino to be destroyed at all. I run Fist or Lascannon from time to time and its super-annoying how many times you get stopped by random stragglers by chance. This doesn'T directly change anything about balance, seeing as it affects both sides, equally, but it does mean there is less actual fighting in Eldar-matches, which usually benefits the Eldar, as fighting isn't really a thing we are good at.

    This not taking into account that a good team can just ignore their transport and take a point by force without it.
    The main problem with all randoms and LSM even more is that they hesitate too much.
    The game rewards highly aggressive and speed-based gameplay, not firefights peeking around doors.
    Also, I don't get why most player stop moving under fire. Like: You are obviously in a kill-zone, the last thing you should do is slow down!
    LordSloth likes this.
  6. Belphegor LordSloth Preacher

    The sad part is that you usually have no point, you are just rambling and sidetracking. Rheeva put it together rather well in the current version of the game if you have serious trouble with AV it is down to your team and not because you lack the options or because the enemy has superior AV.
    Krayt likes this.
  7. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    You must have missed this part
    AV isn't a problem, ALL I got into was that the powerfist is not a reliable means of immobilizing vehicles in the same sense LSM and Eldar can.. Orks have the same case as CSM, having to rely on an item which more or less requires a vehicle to be stationary (or close to) for the immobilization effect to be practically applied.
    So rather than pointing out the obvious nature of it's effect requiring such... I'll make a suggestion;

    Adding the "vehicle stun" immobilization effect onto powerklaws and powerfists when used by stormboys/raptors/jpa's in the air-attack ground-pound (if that hits the vehicle). At that point, nobody can complain, as it is now an item that is capable of being used in a mobile/HMC way if a vehicle is moving.

    I never mentioned, at all (even though you see fit to attribute motive to me whenever there is any topic whatsoever) anything to do with having trouble with AV.. sure, it's OBVIOUSLY easier to have a LSM Tac with melta bomb melta gun and grav pistol, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done, nor that I advocated towards it being so.
    For someone soon in their 40's, you seem to be lacking the ability to keep discourse civil without personal targeting, and you may want to take a look at yourself prior to going after anyone else.
  8. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    Lascanons
    LordSloth and Mainfold like this.
  9. Belphegor LordSloth Preacher

    So what exactly are you argueing?
    So far you conceded the following points:
    1.) AV is currently probably 1:1 on all factions
    2.) Every faction has the means to immobilize the vehicle
    3.) Gear is asymetrical hence LSM have additional tools to the PF, while Eldar have a replacement tool for the PF

    Nothing of this is either new or a huge surprise. The only person who argues about "efficiency" when it comes to immobilisation is you. And Immnolisation is not even required to kill vehicles but is more of a bonus thing.



    You should look up what civil disourse contains and what personal targeting actually means. If i call you out (in a non offensive way) that you have the habit of sidetracking arguments or that you switch for a new topic as soon as you are confronted or even that you have often enough faulty arguments, this is not "personal targetting".

    You start to sound like some other forumusers who see vendettas everywhere. If i would follow you around, jump on every post you make while adding insults and threats or even personal information which has nothing to do with the argument *nudge nudge* that could be considered personal. This would also be worth reporting, since it would be in violation of the forum rules which i tend to avoid.
    Here is it me just telling you that you are wrong and that you should work on your arguments and their causality because talking to you gets boring and tiresome otherwise. So see it as an encouragement to improve.
  10. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    The point, was that it wasn't a fair comparison to compare a power fist/klaw to ranged immobilization, through grav guns/pistols/cannons or haywire grenades. Sure it can be argued that hawks can be shot down, which is fair, but is almost less common than power fist users being simply outrun by vehicles. When it comes to just semi-decent hawk players, they'll use flight speed to it's advantage or another fuel charge to get back to flying after being hit while in air. etc

    Overall, AV is still fine, and it's not a bad thing to have faction variety. I don't WANT Orks and CSM to get grav-weapon equivalents, I'd much rather have the power fist/klaw ground-pound capable of applying the effect of the heavy attack (without the damage), which would be a skill element.

    Generally though, I already find the AV-topic to be better left for whenever there's a good enough reason to address it again, but me saying that won't stop the thread from being filled by the topic by those who seem to think Eldar AV is somehow still vastly overpowered for some reason (even after a normalization patch happened).

    Surely there's better topics to address, like removal of auto-lock for both melee and smart pistols, or making healing-nades not able to revive, etc etc.

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