It is inherently OP by design to grant someone means to survive something on the level of a primarch, if you don't realize that then you're clearly blinded by your desire for the mechanic.

Not only does it mean that an entire team could use vets throughout the entire match and never lose a single life/ticket, even when hit by lascannons, starshot missile, etc.. it also means that team could be facing off against orks or khorne-users that don't get the invulnerability, meaning they can deploy conventional means to win, while the enemy team has to deploy twice the amount of work to yield a fraction of the outcome.

What such a mechanic is, is just plain bad game-design. It's also a "new player"-deterrent to have someone already hard to kill just keep on fighting even after measures akin to vehicle-instakills are deployed.

Because the primary means to kill Veterans right now are Lascannons?
I'll admit that I am sad about the Reaper-Launcher. I can no longer wipe them out out of nowhere and with a good healer I might not be able to kill them at all.
However, that might now be an inherently bad thing.

There are so few things in EC that can one-hit a non Eldar Veteran. Lascannons, Krak-Grenades, Melta-Bombs, Starshot, Powerfists, Rokkits(?). Thats about it.
None of those are usually very good anti-infantry weapons.
The main means to deal with Elites are the same as to deal with everything else, only a bit more of it.
And its not like downstate is an automatic escape-ticket either.

Really all it changes is that you wont get sniped away in the middle of your team, at least not that easily.

I believe it was 20 health and 30%/20% lifesteal? Which is about 420 LP. Lifesteal is overpriced ofc, but thats how it is.

I have to admit that I consider downstate to be completely pointless. Respawning is faster than getting ressed and running to the ammo-crate. Its nothing but an unnecessary risk.
I will let Warlocks ress me but only because I don't want to disappoint them.

But my point is this: You know that you are choosing a build without downstate. You know you are doing so on a Veteran. How does this new, minor adjustment change anything about that?

You cant get one shooted but if u have 99% health you can be oneshooted , if you are down , beacon or not it changes nothing you will die
There is nothing OP about that mechanic i personally find it kinda useless but there will always be babies crying about anything with dumb arguments "muh primarch"

Lifesteal is garbage, it's build on a system of "possible dealt damage", so if your attack hits for 100 with 30% lifesteal, you get 30 healing (which is negligible) and if the target only has 10hp left and you hit with that same attack you only get 3hp healing from it.. which also means overkill-damage does not grant healing, so hitting someone with 200hp for 8000 damage would still only yield (at 30% lifesteal) 60hp healed. It's a garbage stat that barely changes an outcome as long as the game has such a terrible melee system (as it's even lower for ranged weapons).

The Khorne-benefit would be much more applicable if it was something actually related to the brutal nature of the khorne-followers' mindset. One thing would be damage multiplier, some form of buff from continuous damaging and killing, som form of benefit from "trophy hunting" granted via executions.

The "choice" of choosing something without a downed-state is also not weighed up for at all with that minuscule amount of health increase, when the downed state someone gets is equal to the same health they had when not downed yet (which is now even greater with the vet-downed change).

There's a reason many use MoK on classes it doesn't really benefit from it, simply to avoid being possible to execute once "killed".


Such a mechanic cannot be implemented and be balanced in any sense of the word, until there is a solution for those that do not get that specific mechanic.

Honestly...This issue is so unimportant that I don't see why it would be worth my time having this discussion.
You win...or something. You are totally right, this is ridiculously overpowered and will break the game. Veterans OP.

This isn't about winning or losing or some form of misguided idea of having the "correct view". This is about a mechanic that would be a further segmentation of the balance in the game.

You would be outraged if it was only for everyone except eldar, but because it affects some other group negatively you don't see it as a problem.


@jbregg I really hope you're not planning on going through with implementing such a sweeping change without adapting it and corresponding effects of it to the effects on the ones not gaining the benefit prior to even considering going live with it

Whether Eldar Veterans get put into downstate or die? Sorry but that is not a hill I would die on.
Its not like they made up a new mechanic to discriminate against Orks, it is literally the tiniest, least important change possible that happens not to benefit one Chaos mark and one Faction quite as much.
The melee-overhaul hit Eldar harder than other factions by a much, much larger degree than this.
Its just, how things are.

Also, for the records, I wish we had much stronger, asymmetrical balance and more unique identities of factions, classes and builds. I think most assets in the game are still way too similar to one another.

That is something we ABSOLUTELY agree on, the asymmetry would be the best way of keeping the game feeling fresh, but they abandoned anything remotely similar to "variation" even between sub-factions and made the wolf priest into an apothecary etc.

I really wish Eldar stood out more in illusive and illustrious ways, Orks being completely asymmetrical with a symmetrical logic to them, Chaos just ...chaotic and focus to deal with, while LSM were clear cut well defined. Sadly we'll never get that unless @Oveur @jbregg and @Pierrick decide to say "screw it, we might as well go fully asymmetrical to see if it saves the game"

And get Eldar whine all over again because guys couldn't LSM into elves, and all of a sudden, couldn't tank with their face...