Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jbregg, Mar 30, 2017.
weapon stats =/= map design
yeah, but still no reason to get in uproar over something that might still never make it into live, like plenty of other things throughout the life of the game haven't, things that "died" on UAT before seeing the light of day on Live, or pre-nerfed before release, etc.
I'm gonna give @jbregg the benefit of the doubt on this change, until I have some form of idea what the intent of it all is. I'm not suggesting that I'm happy with a substantial reduction in capability of the boltgun, but I'm still not gonna get outraged over a change that's not even final.
I'd be much more inclined to complain about nonsense like the nerf of the fusion pistol that was completely unnecessary as it was barely used as it was even
At what point does outplaying come in here?
Even after long break, my muscular memory force me to use pistol. (Ya, i know it's a showcase... But anyway.)
If you actually play the game, what you see happen in actual fights and not setup ones, is folks don't use d-bash to hit back with melee, they do it to use a ranged weapon.... and shoot headshots. Because that's quicker than melee-fighting a melee class.
The most common thing you'll see by anyone who is trying their darndest to win a fight, is d-bash ranged-weapon spam/burst on the head followed up by more of the same, or in many cases creating distance to be able to fire off even more shots before the melee class gets in range again.
edit; not to mention those that d-bash spam to keep the target stunned while slowly withering them down with d-bash damage. Yes, because that is a thing that happens
So the bolter was over performing because its all people choose? To fix this the raw damage is to be increased while reducing accuracy thereby reducing overall dps? I know something needs to be done but that feels a little like punishing players with good accuracy and punishing players with bad accuracy even more? I'm not an expert but I like to know that my shots are going to go where I tell them to is all I'm saying because accuracy is everything to me.
Since everyone is talking about DPS, which as I hope we are all aware is not a relevant stat seeing as we are not using continuous laser beams but weapons that fire individual shots, I quickly mathed up some TTKs using the loadouts that @ProteusVM loves to post whenever someone mentions painboys.
Y'know, these ones:
Old Bolter = 38 damage / 333 rpm
New Bolter = 49 damage / 231 rpm
Proteus' suggested Bolter = 60 damage / 210 rpm
438.18 EHP (LSM Tactical)
Old: 1.98 seconds TTK
New: 2.08 seconds TTK
Proteus: 2.00 seconds TTK
Old: 0.90 seconds TTK
New: 1.04 seconds TTK
Proteus: 0.86 seconds TTK
312.96 EHP (Eldar Dire Avenger)
Old: 1.44 seconds TTK
New: 1.56 seconds TTK
Proteus: 1.43 seconds TTK
Old: 0.72 seconds TTK
New: 0.78 seconds TTK
Proteus: 0.57 seconds TTK
467.76 EHP (Ork Shoota Boy)
Old: 2.16 seconds TTK
New: 2.34 seconds TTK
Proteus: 2 seconds TTK
Old: 1.26 seconds TTK
New: 1.3 seconds TTK
Proteus: 1.14 seconds TTK
I won't go too far into my opinion, but I do not think that a drop of ~0.1 seconds TTK on body shots will ruin the bolter. I don't like your suggested numbers @ProteusVM , mostly because they make the Bolter even more deadly with headshots than it currently is, and god knows the bolter does not need a buff, particularly in skilled hands.
What I would actually like @jbregg to do, is contact the infamous "GW guy" that Nathan always referenced, and get him to contact the rest of GW-guys related to it, and ask them straight up:
What is the rate of fire of a Mk.5bravo Godwyn pattern Boltgun? How many rounds per minute does it fire approximately?
And from there on out, tune the damage and other stats based around that. At that point of having a well defined GW-approved rate of fire, we can no longer argue the specifics of tuning it via rpm, but rather what is appropriate stat-wise for other stats, and then the gun-sound can also be tuned to sound optimally (because who doesn't like an awesome sounding gun?)
So what you're saying is you wanted me to actually use both rollex and burstfire exploit instead of fighting him in melee?
• If you dont rollex he'll follow you with the light-attack's forward movement and hit you in the recovery animation
• If you don't burstfire exploit he'll hit you and stop you from firing
Generally, people whine about that when they see that and want the tac to actually use their knife. But yeah I'll keep doing that in-game and letting people whine about that if you want me to.
Alright now lets take the same fight but use the pistol.
Actually, yeah you're right - it would make the bolter more deadly by nature of increasing the damage thus alpha damage. But this is also not taking into account that other factors are being impacted by this change, such as a significant inability to fight using hipfire as well as considerable recoil compared to other weapons - it's still not enough for me to really consider it 'difficult' to manage but the recoil is at least present now which I consider more than fair enough for a maximum discrepancy of 0.200ms