It isn't like ranged damage isn't effective, people just cram themselves into smaller areas and get snuck up on because they aren't running together and suddenly, 'melee OP'.

Now run a melee player and a ranged player and they can work together to be efficient...pugs do not do this. They run in and spam for their life to try and get all the kills.

The worst time I ever had this game (600 + hours in since alpha) was when nobody played melee because you couldn't get into range, once you were in range you couldn't hit the target (because there was no reach to your attacks), and a bolter would kill you just by backing. Not fun.

Besides, if you're a tactical you have your knife which is surprisingly effective...I'm happier with knife-fighting than ever before. If I see a Ground or Jump Assault coming at me, I don't feel completely useless. If you're playing a Heavy Gunner, then your job is to kill them before they get to you and if you can't, find help.

It is because of the melee that this game plays like a 40k game. Players that don't bother to cooperate with the person next to them are not going to have a good time (you don't even have to chat with to do this in a rudimentary 'hold the point' fashion, though I'd like voice restored soon).

I will say that the Heavy Bolter probably needs a little more love again, possibly a higher overheat threshold or something and that there are a few things that still need to be looked at in melee (possibly Ork Power attacks and power-attack vs. fast attack vs. stun times for all weapons), but melee feels good now. Some of the capture points could use some more hard-points that are friendly to ranged weaponry, but many of them have these things (All those balconies and 2nd-floor locations overlooking the capture point, for instance). Should it be surprising when the enemy sends in jump troops to clear the 2nd floor and push into the point? Because that's what they were made to do and the design philosophy does a wonderful job of playing that out. What we do probably need are more ranged-friendly locations outside of these areas...maybe some actual pillboxes and gunner positions that force the enemy to assault that location so they can push onward. Of course, a choke-point or hallway with a couple of heavy bolters in it does the same thing...it's the guy that sneaks up behind them that they don't like, but that wouldn't happen if someone bothered to protect their rear.

I can frequently hold off a jump assault good 10-15 seconds or more with a Heavy Gunner if I play my game right, or often simply blow both of us up. I think people are just looking for a pass to be able to kill everyone else whenever they want instead of playing the classes as they're meant to be.

Did you even read what I said later in the thread? Or did you just want to make a sassy/useless comment and hope someone would pat you on the back?

Cry? I suggest that you should read better before posting. I play with Melee. And when I did with Tactical, I used to have more kills. The difference? I don't care how good or bad I'm doing it, I just want the game as balanced as possible.

Anyway, is that your proof? Take some pic from a random match. Don't you realise that this can't be taken as a real proof. I can also post a pic where random melee player did the same score. Nice try tho.

There is no balance between melee and ranged, even the devs say they're still working on it.

Believe me, I probably understand your point better than you understand mine. However, I'll post whatever I want because this is a forum, and I understand that on the internet there are always people who don't accept someone else's opinions. I'm not going to stop just because some random guy from the internet tells me to do it (see, you don't have power here as in real life. Nice try). And I cannot also play another game, why should I? Who are you to tell people to play another game just because they don't like something about the game they're currently playing and want some improvements?

Of course Can beat, but the amount of effort and skill required is higher.

Aaaaand, I'm gonna keep posting, just because you told me to stop

The main issue that people are forgetting: the tactical has less leniency in melee than its xeno counterparts. I can't speak for the traitor as I haven't played chaos since pre-launch, but if it's a mirror, I'd imagine the situation is similar. The knife only gets about 1 or 2 clangs (maybe 3 in certain situations) before it's over--clangs supposedly being a more "neutral" outcome in the RPS system than winning.

However, because the knife loses so much durability on a clang, even to a chainsword, there aren't many options at all once someone closes the gap. Being aggressive with your fast attacks to stop power attack spam is not an option due to the frequency of clangs, unlike the orks who clang at a higher weapon tier. Hitting a chainsword or powersword (you're lucky if you're opponent has these as the issue is worse with maces, axes, and fists) with your knife twice is essentially the same as losing. Why? Because now that the bash requires weapon durability, your weapon will break, regardless of the fact that you may pick the rock to your opponent's scissors. This is essentially the root problem, and all ranged tactical-equivalent classes suffer from it, even orks and eldar, just not to the same degree.

If you're lucky and you actually manage to damage your opponent enough where you can kill them in 1 or 2 knife swings, you may still live to see the next encounter. More often than not, this is not the case, and the life leech weapon mod almost guarantees it is not the case. Combined with plenty of cover, cramped objectives, and melee clangbangs, I have say the tactical may be the weakest it's been in melee in quite some time--maybe since the beginning of alpha.

The fact that you don't know why screenshots aren't exactly solid proof either means you are new to the game, or you don't know what you are talking about. Not worth arguing with the uninformed.

P.S. : Even the guy who posted those screenshots says that he understands why they aren't exactly concrete evidence, perhaps take a hint?

Truthfully, they should just up the durability of the Knife to the Chainsword, and lower the knife's damage, with the understanding that it won't invalidate a Chainsword because...

1.) The Chainsword will still have a higher impact rating than the Knife, even if they have the same durability.
2.) The Chainsword will still do more damage, even more so if they lower Knife damage further as I'm suggesting.
3.) The Chainsword will still have better weapon mods.
4.) The Chainsword will still have a better Power Attack lunge range (I believe it's currently further than the Knife, if not, reduce the Knife's a bit.)

This way we can defend ourselves but still have an inferior melee weapon to the Chainsword. And hell, they could cut the Knife's damage in half, most Tacs won't give a flying damn. Sure, we may lose the ability to backstab enemies as well, but if it keeps us alive better in melee, I consider that quite an even trade. As for the Orkz Knuckles, I don't know how to buff them up, if they need it.