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Thoughts on hawks and movement?

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Phyrak, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Phyrak Phyrak Cipher

    Hey there,

    I've been toying with hawks of late and their flying (gliding?) feels off for some reason...

    Any recommendations on the best way to fly a hawk or perhaps what tweaks could be made to have the hawk actually fly?

    Personally, I am rather fond of titania and her flying from warframe. It seems to best mimic what hawks do within fluff and sometimes through the games

    Some theoretic tweaks.

    Whilst in the air:
    Ctrl - lower down z axis
    Space - raise z axis
    Shift - consume fuel for additional X seconds in the air

    Edit:
    Forgot to add...

    Let no movement input compute to hover.
    ADS + hover is a terrible combination when it comes to flying.

    If you aren't moving, you should hover.

    Ps: can sun rifles inflict a little bit of heat/fire damage to make them a tad useful...
    Give a unique sun rifle (if there isn't one already) that deals a heavy heat/fire dot. That'd be rad

    Just some thoughts,

    Thank you for reading,

    -Phyrak
  2. Shiani Brujah Preacher

    I actually find the Hawks to be phenomenal to fly.

    Remember that when you Aim Down Sights your speed slows dramatically. Additionally if you pull back your speed slows right down (in fact you'll start flying backwards if you were going slowly enough to begin with). Timed well, this gives you a good second or two to dump your grenades on your target.

    Alternatively, you can zip from one side of a map to the other in under 10 seconds, relocating to a new perch from which to pick people off with the Hunter's Mark.

    There is already a unique Sunrifle that does improved blinding, but not one that has a heat ailment. That's a pretty good idea though.
    thantrus, Niothewarlock and Sily like this.
  3. Judasilfarion Silfarion Drill Abbott

    Sunrifles are just lasers, they don't really do fire damage in lore

    Personally the sunrifle is my favorite hawk weapon. You already have the lowest DPS in the game outside of grav weapons. Instead of desperately trying to deal more damage, embrace how shitty your ability to directly hurt people is and go for their eyes.

    Seriously though, annoying the shit out of a nest of heavy bolters giving your allies some breathing space to get close and stab the enemy in the ass is really useful. High mobility and the ability to blind and suppress people is more useful than you think, especially considering that your other weapons aren't much of an upgrade. Your job is to harass people after all, and wit the sunrifle you can accomplish that job wonderfully

    As for flying, you just need to get used to it. Tapping W accelerate a but also decreases altitude, and if you hold S while moving at high speed you increase altitude, but also slow down until you're just hovering in the air and slowly losing altitude.

    You need to perfect your landing technique with a lot of practice but eventually you'll get good enough to get into whatever position you want perfectly and precisely. It's just like learning how to shit grenades on people, actually
  4. Safreadis Safreadis Arkhona Vanguard

    I absolutely love playing Swooping Hawk and I feel like their flying, although sometimes a little bit clunky, is balanced for PvP.

    You've played warframe, so have I. It's an awesome game for PvE, and since last year has made a lot of efforts to get a balanced and decent PvP.
    Have you ever tried to go PvP? It's hugging super hard! And everyone has about the same mobility, with very reduced energy so you don't go flying everywhere. I've been playing Zephyr and Ivara, and good lord it's fortunate that their mobility is a bit tuned down.
    Yet in Warframe everyone has access to the bullet jump, wallruns and so on. But.... You want to give this to only one class?

    That's a bit mad, no offence.

    If I have any kind of advice to practice flying, go to the garrison and fly around, try to get places you've never been, try to land on pylons, try to gain altitude, try everything you can think of. Try to get inside building through the windows, and so on.
    Brujah likes this.
  5. Phyrak Phyrak Cipher

    I was rereading the fluff of SH last night
    It appears they should more or less have titania's movement with flight

    Such are what the suggested additions entail

    Proper flight rather than gliding
  6. Safreadis Safreadis Arkhona Vanguard

    I know, I know... But balance wise, in this game, that's not something you can afford, honestly.

    I mean, would you agree, you, an Atlas, to fight an ArchWing? I doubt it. Truly.
  7. Maensith Subordinate

    I thought it's a suicide orangutan's job :(, dont hurt my bonobo feelings
  8. Vampatori Vampatori New Member

    I hated it to start with, I didn't get the controls properly at all.. I thought I had it, but didn't. So I spent a session in the training ground working it all out and practising, and now I love it.

    • Push and hold Space to lift into the air. The longer you hold Space the higher you go, up until a ceiling based on the height you lept from (so you can go higher by leaping from a higher point). You can let-go of Space when you're at the height you want / at your limit.
    • Launching into the air is not directly up, there is a forward movement too.. so you need a bit of space to get-up (i.e. in rooms you need to be careful which way you launch - but if you have the fuel you can launch into a wall, then launch out the other way with a nice angle).
    • Use WSAD to steer.. this is the most confusing thing at first as it's a different control scheme to the rest of the game, but having your aim free from your movement is of course essential.
    • As you glide you'll slowly loose height overall, so plan your route to take that into account (it's cool gliding through gaps in buildings!).
    • Once you're gliding, no fuel is consumed, so you can glide for a very long time if you have the height/space.
    • Tap Space to drop out of the glide directly down (you carry a little forward momentum I think, not sure).
    • Hold Ctrl to ADS, which causes you to almost hover, slowing down dramatically. You can shoot in this state, which is great for getting unusual angles on the enemy that they're not expecting.
    • Fly into a wall to grab and stick to the wall. Space to boost off perpendicular to the wall.
    • You can reload while gliding, so after you attack and leap away, reload as you soar into the skies - ready for the next kill(s).
    Now I've finally got used to it, it feels right.. it feels like I'm swooping - which obviously fits. Very useful, but limited with its quirks that need to be accounted for.

    Hovering with ADS is amazing, when I found that out it was a game-changer, you can attack people from all sorts of annoying angles they don't expect. Wall-hanging is great, another game-changer when I realised.. I also like how you have to jump-off and swoop around.

    My initial thoughts were that Swooping Hawks would be most useful when attacking - while they can be good in attack, especially when time is of the essence and your nearest spawn is miles away, it's in defence where they excel.

    Picking-off heavy weapon campers surrounding your base is awesome fun, you feel exactly like a hawk circling the skies looking for your prey, then dropping down for the kill before leaping into the skies again before the enemy can reply.

    You have an unparalleled view of the battlefield, and you can swoop down and hit the enemy in their rear as they try to assault your base. Sure, if someone trains their sights on you, you burn like a moth in a flame.. but at certain points in a battle they're amazing.

    In terms of weapons, I'm still unlocking things and working all that out.. but accuracy seems to be the key for me.. you're engaging at medium range and you do low damage so need those head-shots (hovering is great for getting an angle on the head). I tried the Hawk's Talon but I could not get on with it so am using a master-crafted lasblaster at the moment.

    Two of my best games have been predominantly as a Swooping Hawk. One when defending a single objective, I was an absolute terror to all the enemy heavy weapons teams.. leaping from building-to-building taking them out. It got to the point that most people gave-up on that whole idea. I also repeatedly ruined their assaults when things got tight, by hitting them from behind at the worst possible moment - when they duck back behind cover to recharge. At the end several on their team complained about the "god damn swooping hawks". But.. I was the only one the whole game that I saw! By far my biggest score, which is crazy considering I was mostly solo.

    Another game was also in defence, ABC one, and there was another two swooping hawks (they were friends I think) that I stuck with. It was amazing.. it felt like a proper squad! But we were absolutely devastating on the battlefield.. wherever the enemy tried to take an objective, we'd swoop in and ruin them. Anyone caught foot-slogging across the battlefield would be dead in seconds.

    I would love to be part of a Swooping Hawk squad over discord.. that would be crazy fun!
    Orkan, Brujah and Dragonkindred like this.
  9. Phyrak Phyrak Cipher

    Movement definitely needs streamlining imo

    Flying does seem clunky...

    Shall try some of your techniques
  10. Rathaerion Rathael Arkhona Vanguard

    Yeah. Hawk's are one of those classes that feels horrible at first, but once you master the controls you can really make a mockery of enemy gunfire. I have no trouble with Hawk flight, personally. I very rarely use the air-hang. I just find it to be too suicidal with the current ranged TTK. If anyone shoots you out of the air-hang, they can often kill you before you hit the ground because of the slow falling.

    I believe the system they have has been guided and inspired by gamesworkshop, so I doubt there is much opportunity to actually change the system now.

    There's only two things I'd change about Hawk flight if prompted:
    1. The inability to do anything except fall slowly when you get hit out of the sky. I think we should be able go into a glide or something.
    2. The animations. I'd like to feel a bit more graceful rather than just hanging legs in the air like we're on wires.

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