Half the people participating in this conversation have no concept of how the mechanics involved work or should work.

Let's put it this way. Imagine if Dbash was simply clanging vs fast attacks and not actually stunning/winning. That's what's happening with Fast Attack vs Strong attacks. FA is clanging vs Strong Attack which is a tie or a stalemate, NOT a win.

The bash by itself doesn't deal damage, and it can easily be avoided. That's why it's fine for it to be a reactive move, rather than a predictive one. I would even go so far as to say that that's intentional, but I have no way to confirm that assertion.

The rps system isn't actually rock paper scissors, it's just a metaphorical way of describing how the mechanics interact as a system.

It's all in the timing, kid.

If anything its the other way around with a bash attack, you can throw a fast attack bounce off the Dbash and then roll away to safety. Aside from the AV fist, dbashing on reaction to a fast attack isn't very feasible. Only seems like it is since most players like to spam RMB like kinda muppet.

Edit: As to the "Muh FA Clangs off their SA!" this is the same thing I quoted at Njord. If they get to fully charge their SA (the ping sound) then you clang off it (and even then tends to be a losing clang since SAs have more impact). Stop waiting to see they are throwing paper before you throw scissors.

Here's how I handle melee atm. I try not to get into straight up melee fights. Too many bugs. So either I try to play hit,run,shoot or I toss a nade at them as they que an attack. Just throwing a nade at a melee running straight at you is surprisingly handy. They tend to swing into the nade and just blow themselves up.

I have a similar strategy, bypass Melee by switching to Pistol:

Give them the impression I'm going to spam quick attack, as soon as I see them begin their Dbash wind up rather than charging up Strong Attack (which SHOULD counter Dbash but amost never does) simply evade backwards leaving them kicking thin air and shoot them in the face with my Pistol before their able to switch to their "MuH bOltEr" strategy

This works really well^

Funny that the best option for Melee is to GTFO of Melee and use a Pistol.

Hey that reminded me of mind's eye theatre Larp .
They used an RPS system to (since you can't really dice roll in a larp setting) that also included the Bomb. basicly the thumb up sign.
Bomb beats all except scissors ( which cuts the fuse)

"psSSSSSSSSSSSSst.... nothin personel.............kid"
^ this is how you sound right now
Somebody doesnt seem to understand melee mechanics, and how melee should work.
Fast atttack should always counter strong attack opposite attacks shouldnt clang, if i was actually "too late" i should have eaten the striong attack in the face.
As long as i land the fast attack while the strong attack happens, it should counter the strong attack as basic rps rules say.
Not even the devs in the rules of melee have tiny text that says that during the strong attack windup there is only a specific moment when you can counter with a fast attack, they simply say fast attack beats strong attack which should happen ALWAYS.

Are you people...serious? How much more simplified and cherry picked could you take your information? To the point that you are complaining about people not understanding the melee mechanics when you yourself don't understand them.

1.) Why does Dbash interrupt/clang with a Strong Attack during the charge up phase? This is to prevent someone spamming Fast Attack, clanging off of a Dbash, and then just charging up a Power Attack while the Dbash user is stuck in animation. If this wasn't a thing, then Dbash would be entirely useless because every time you used it someone would just Power Attack you in the face for free. At least with the current ease of rolling away from the Dbash kick it doesn't end with the Dbash user getting face smashed with no counter-play. In the current mechanics, the Power Attack can still activate AFTER you see a Dbash animation wind-up and you will still cut through it with all the weapons but the PF. So in almost every situation the Power Attack animation is plenty quick (for melee at least), you just can't use it halfway through an enemy's Dbash and think you'll get away with it. This is mainly due to the fact that melee is a game of anticipation not reaction in EC. I talk more about that later. Long story short, if you anticipate the Dbash and Power Attack you win, if you try to react you will more than likely eat it for playing "badly".

2.) Why does Fast Attack clang with Power Attack and not just cut through it? This was to give melee classes an advantage in the form of weapon durability as well as provide sustain in the melee system. First, if every Fast Attack could interrupt a Power Attack at any point in the animation (especially in the current mechanics), then a Power Attack would never ever ever connect. It'd just be too damn easy to counter it. Second, it allows melee classes with higher tier melee weapons a sort of "active defense" as their weapon will be able to take that losing clang against someone with a lower tier weapon (giving value to higher impact tier options, similar to how maces can basically abuse lower tier melee weapons when shooting in melee isn't a thing). Third, it allows skilled melee players who can gauge their durability correctly to avoid damage, giving heavy sustain to the health of said player. It even has a place in baiting opponents to move the way you want them to if you can read them correctly.

3.) Why does Dbash work before AND after a Fast Attack? First, let's recognize how flipping hard it is to activate your Dbash AFTER someone has Fast Attacked you while standing right next to you and not just end up being smacked because you were too slow. That's not even counting latency/lag, stuttering, etc. That takes quite alot of skill to do regularly and not just "on accident". Second, the melee system used to have the Dbash as a "reactive" option, basically you were supposed to activate Dbash after you saw a Fast Attack incomming. That used to be a viable strategy until melee animations and mechanics were sped up to "make melee more quick and brutal". Ever since they did that, melee has become less a game of "reactive" moves and counters, and more a game of "anticipate enemy moves and bait them". If you are playing melee re-actively, you're doing it wrong, at least in the current mechanics. Take it from a ranged player, literally no one tries to Dbash AFTER a Fast Attack is incoming, they are forced to anticipate what you do. Every time someone uses a Dbash, it's a mind game, and in reality they're hoping to hell you are about to Fast Attack or they're basically dead. Third, simply put, Dbash is the counter to Fast Attack and in no fantasy world will Fast Attack every strike through a Dbash. If a Fast Attack was able to strike through a Dbash that has been activated, and Dbash was able to be cut by Power Attacks, and Dbash kicks can be rolled away from, and Dbash locks you in a shitty animation....well that's just silly.

I could go on and on with these explanations, because unlike some people I've actually put the time in to think about the bigger picture of what is going on instead of cherry picking information and having tunnel vision. We could mention how it's kind of cheap that it is so easy to roll out of a Dbash stun (or dodge it with a roll), but we don't because when you look at the bigger picture you realize that being able to basically avoid 100% the stun with a simple roll is paid off for by being able to catch a Power Attack in the charge-up phase or being able to roll at the very beginning of the Dbash animation. The melee mechanics in this game were based on the "one mistake won't totally screw you" mentality which is why all the different attacks/animations/moves have at least 2 ways to be countered (1 hard, 1 soft, and maybe more). They wanted counterplay to be varied, and so they made melee less hard and fast rules and more guidelines.

If you really REALLY want hard and fast rules then go with this.

1.) Dbash has no kick anymore, but if you hit it with a Fast Attack you are auto-stunned. No dodging opportunity...hit=stun.
2.) Power Attacks can be countered 100% by Fast Attacks, no matter the timing, distance traveled, or how much it "looks" like you should have finished your attack before the clang.
3.) Power Attacks cut through Dbash no matter what, regardless of charge time.
4.) No rolling during any melee animation period, rolling gives a soft counter which shouldn't be in a hard and fast balancing game. This means you better time your melee moves right, or they'll roll while you are in an animation and you won't be able to interrupt it.
5.) The player with the proper counter takes no durability damage at all, don't want to give too much of a soft counter advantage to impact tiers when the mighty RPS should be king.
6.) Should I keep going...or can we see how ridiculous this is yet?

Where are these rules of melee, and how can i aqcuire a copy. In what way do I enlighten myself on "how melee should work". Teach me oh great one, please!

Rock paper scissors is a game where two opponents call either rock, paper or scissors at the same time, resulting in either a draw or one player winning. If the mechanics in EC were actually that simple, I think I wouldn't play it.