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The state of Ork balance and salt

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ThillyGooth, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. Eh...if it had a Light attack I feel like we'd see too many of them. I don't think PF or Klaws should be the norm in a battle and should take extra patience and reserve to try and use them heh.

    And seriously, one sprint attack, 1-3 pistols shots kills anyone in the game with Klaw.
  2. Orkus Pokus Trenchwar Arkhona Vanguard

    I agree it should not be the norm, but right now it's just a worse powerfist, so get rid of the powerfist fast attack at least then. There is also the loadout cost. and as an ork you still have shorter reach than a marine with a powerfist too. So you have reach and 1/3 of the melee system to go against the exact marine equivalent weapon. With no compensatory advantage.

    why would it make sense to have power fists better than power klaw so that the mid and long range loyalists and traitor get a better melee tier 3 weapon? We are supposed to be the melee centric faction.

    Basically, I'm asking myself, what makes us better at melee then marines and chaos? They have an equivalent for anything that we have.

    Compared to loyalist, our melee can cap. That doesn't make them better at melee.
    Compared to chaos, everything we have they have the same.
    Both have a better power klaw equivalent that can fast attack and win clangs.

    For eldar I can accept that they have low tier level weapon, you can still clang with slower more powerful axe when you unlock them. Their melee has it's own flavor which is on the other side of the orkish spectrum and I like that, still I know using a power klaw is a bad strategy against them, better with an axe and better pistol and the rest goes to survivability.

    You can one shot with a plasma charged shot, you can one shot with a rokkit, you can one shot with a klaw/fist power attack, that is true. Than I'd rather get rid of the one shot gimmicks and have a weapon that can be used to have a propah fight. Nerf all the fists and the klaw damage if you have to, but at least make us melee focused for real.

    You know what my first impression was when I first played a slugga boy? Oh nice, we have lots of good shooty pistol :D. yeah, that's the advantage I can find on the melee class of a melee centric faction, it has good dakka. Am I the only one seeing the irony? Our melee has better shooty option than other factions melee stuck with ordinary pistols, and our melee weapons are equal to marines, or worse (in case of powerklaw). I must admit, I'm a bit sour about that.
    Warriant likes this.
  3. ShadowMage ShadowMage Active Member

    One thing I think that's interesting is how Behaviour seems to interpret orks as all dim-witted, sluggish, dim-witted buffoons. While not "smart", Orks display a level of low cunning coming from their instinctive feel for combat. While slow and ponderous due to their size and general lack of motivation, the lore consistently states how fast, precise, and almost graceful they are in hand-to-hand combat.

    I feel like Orks in EC might be suffering of the cliche stereotype that people often think of when talking of orkz. However, orkz are surprisingly nuanced characters, especially in combat.

    However all we are right now in EC is "ORK SMASH! ORK PUNCH AT AIR CAUSE ORK TOO STOOPID TO FITE!"
  4. I am not a terribly good melee player, and with an unmodified chainsword I was winning way too many melee fights with orks - to the point where I was hunting them down instead of avoiding them.
  5. Elemir Swiftblade Warriant Arkhona Vanguard

    I assumed that it would just be the default painboy gun, it should be.
  6. ShadowMage ShadowMage Active Member

    Okay, so that guy going on about the Shoota and how it's completely fine and even better than the bolter...? Yeah, he's full of excrement. At near point-blank range, I unloaded into the back of a Space Marine for about a whole second, everything hitting (as far as I could tell), and he still only barely went down.

    Now I'm completely willing to grant that it may be lag or something, because I was also getting shot literally through walls and columns, but this guy was capping a point, and so he hadn't been moving for at least a bit, so I find that extremely difficult to believe it's only lag.

    Also, I'm going to test it in the Garrison. Expect that edit soon.

    Okay, so the Shoota does 22-24 damage on the Gaunts in garrison (55 on a head-shot). You can empty a 80 round clip (bigger magazine. I tested the basic clip and it empties in 7.5 seconds) in 10 seconds (I used a stopwatch and it was dead-on), so that's 480 rounds per minute . That's 8 rounds per second, and 23 damage per round; 184 dps sans reloading.

    The bolter does 30 damage on the Gaunts (65 on a head-shot). You empty your 30 round clip in 5 seconds, so that's 360 rounds per minute. It's 6 rounds per minute for the bolter, and 6 times 30 is 180 dps sans reloading.

    So these two weapons are exactly the same in terms of damage output! It's also very much worth noting that, while not terribly inaccurate (even with sustained fire), the Shoota is noticeably less accurate than the bolter. (See picture) This is pretty obvious that the Shoota is a slight disadvantage at longer ranges, but has no conceivable advantage that I am aware of.

    So this was just an overly-long and detailed way of saying, our shoota "sucks". It's pretty on-par, but it does have anything special for us.

    Edit 2:
    On further maths, the Shoota does the best DPS of any "basic rifle" when head-shotting. Despite having the worst* accuracy. (Avenger Shuriken Catapult has better vertical accuracy but worse horizontal accuracy. I don't know, that's the way it is.)

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  7. Zodgrim Dakathug zodgrim Steam Early Access

    When I sort items in the store by tier, the Ork Choppa is bottom row.

    When I sort items by requisition cost, the Ork Choppa is top row.

    When I compare the cost of the Ork Choppa, a bottom tier item, to virtually every item in the SM, CSM, and Eldar stores, I notice that it is twice as expensive (20k req vs 10k).

    I don't understand this new math.
  8. MungFuSensei MungFuSensei Steam Early Access

    You realize that 20k is the base cost for all weapons, only getting higher, and 10k is using premium currency?
  9. Wurgutz Myfuri Confessor

    It's also sad that any RTC points spent on appearance is gimping your start because you HAVE TO buy zzap gun and you pretty much have to buy something else to grind with too because our starting equipment is so crappy against all factions. Also we cant buy higher tier melee with RTC where for example marines can go for a fist for 10K points... Fun grinding ahead!

    It's weird how gimped orkz are right now. I dont get it, do we have so small player base that it's more cost effective to make custon toenails for nightlords or different colored eyes for blood angels rather than making the missing skins for our weapons that would at least give us the change to buy the same tier starting gear as the rest of the factions? And if this game is really going to make it harder at launch to grind those weapons that other factions can buy with real money instead then I call that p2w against orkz, idc if you can grind them in time or not. Buying high tier weapons when others have to play for a week or two to get them and cant get them from same store at start is p2w.

    edit: BTW, if you want to hit with klaw use pokkit rokkit, it works pretty well when you stun your enemy and make running attack, if both hit even veteran will fall.
  10. Zodgrim Dakathug zodgrim Steam Early Access

    And why do Orks not have a premium currency option?

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