Lorgar has nothing to do with this discussion. I'm judging the actor's performance, the character motivation is different regardless. In A New Hope they did spend 5 minutes to establish that Luke got some training so it made sense that he was able to use the force when the time came. That is far different than immediately mastering a technique that even Jedi Masters failed at a couple times by someone who has absolutely no practical knowledge of the force. In short, I thought it a poor way to establish a character, explaining OPness in post doesn't strike me as good development. The rest, yes, we have been over it. I do not expect you to suddenly decide that you hated the movie because of my criticisms, but I will not accept the fanboy circlejerk going on where all criticisms of the movie are offhandedly dismissed as the ravings of those who are just upset about them destroying the EU or didn't understand. You can provide all the explanations you want, but don't be surprised if people don't roll over and decide that your opinion is the correct one. But please, spend the next few pages agreeing with eachother about how all the critics are wrong, I'm sure that will work.
I did not come here to convince anyone that they are wrong, especially in disliking The Force Awakens. Years ago I had a choice of watching two game themed movies. I chose one, and after watching the other was glad of my choice. But I find out recently that this other film is considered a self-parodying classic. And I'm sure there are people who would try to convince me I am wrong in opinions. But it is my opinion, which is why I generally respect those of others (though on occasion I would say I disagree). But I would say that when members post on this thread something wrong I do attempt to correct it as I am, in part, trying to prevent others positive experience of the film being soured. I agree. He was almost as whiny a little b!£*h as Lorgar was at the beginning of The First Heretic. But his whiny, teen-aged angst may be by design with more of why the situation is like this to come in the next two films. Actually there is precedence of this from the EU. I remember when Luke was forming his New Jedi Order and found at least one Force Sensitive who was a prodigy in his training. I remember a scene underground where Luke tested him and got a big force shove in return. I think there was a character from the Young Jedi Knights, I think his name began with Z, was also gifted with the Force. It is possible that Rey was unconsciously using the Force on Jakku, helping her find and access the junk she was selling for food. So once she heard the stories were true it would start something off in her. And once she was told she could use the force, by Kylo Ren, it accelerated. Plus there was that gap between her escape from the detention cell and the lightsaber battle near the end. For all we know when she hid she could have been practicing using the Force. It was his first "battle", and there is that little bit of psychology about how 98% of US soldiers in WWII were either not firing or firing over the heads of their German enemy. No matter how much you indoctrinate people there will always be those who still won't do something they consider morally wrong. Plus... Spoiler I have sneaking suspicion that Finn is a Force-sensitive and possible future Jedi himself. Practically all Post-Endor Imperial Factions, Remnants, and those with aspirations to become the new Empire do tend to build Superweapons. It is one of their characteristics. I can't comment on that as I may have missed that bit. Considering what George Lucas did with the Prequels and some of his plans for Episode VII, his judgement may seem somewhat suspect.
Exactly what i was getting at...I guess you could say Imperial truth minds think alike? Im sorry, but there were, at the very least, hints as to why rey was powerful with the force. When she grabbed lukes lightsaber, it almost, imo, showed us that she was his daughter, or that she knew him and trained with him. She also said she was waiting for whoever dropped her off on jakku to return, but isnt it possible that she will be the one to find that person, aka luke? I can guarantee the next film will explain it all.
If they are concerned with their experiences being soured, why would they investigate a thread that is clearly starkly cynical view of the movie? Filling in missing information is fine and all, but some of the other's seem to believe that because there's lore tidbits about certain things it puts the movie beyond criticism, An entire world is burnt to ashes for listening to him and he feels bad about it and takes some time to rethink his life. So whiny. There is a possibility he'll be a better character in the next movie, that didn't help him in this one. Course they'd have to go full Sith bodily mutilation to make that face remotely intimidating. Knowing that something can be done, and learning how to do it are two entirely different things. In your examples the characters had received some instruction, you know got an idea how to actually use the Force, and then because they were a prodigy their power grew exponentially. I think it's a poor establishment of a character because there was no initial introduction. When in combination of the rest of the character, to me, came off as exceedingly sue. Him realizing that he didn't enjoy slaughtering villagers isn't my issue with the character development, that's a natural starting point to explain his defection. The issue I have is how they dismissed all the potential that sort of changeover had. Even if that was his first battle, I don't imagine that being trained to be a nameless Stormtrooper teaches you a whole lot of humanity. Overcoming an inability to connect with people could have been something, his self interest in survival could have been handled better. Like is said, there's two more movies, they could have taken more time to flush out the internal conflicts that should arise from having been molded into a killer. Yes Lucas is a mixed bag, some of his ideas shouldn't have made it off the drawing board and some were dismissed that shouldn't have. It's not the end all assessment of the film, but it does say something when the creator wants to distance himself from the product. A musical prodigy can't write a sympathy before being taught the scales, is what I'm saying. Also, that I bet that it's not explained very well. Either that or we're to simply accept that she's powerful and doesn't really need training. And it also doesn't change the development shown in this movie. And I'm not talking about backstory alone, plot and character development are related, not interchangeable. And yes, Imperial Truth is a great echo chamber of conformity. Please pass the Koolaide .
Well there is another possible explanation why Rey is so powerful in the force. Spoiler It has been suggested that before being left on Jakku, Rey was taught at Luke's Jedi Academy. Some even suggest that she is in some way related to Luke. Though she seems to have forgotten such a past, if it ever existed in the first place. But this would explain her sudden ability with the Force, because it is not a sudden new ability but the rediscovery and extension of a long-forgotten one. From what I saw in the film, it does suggest the above as a possibility.
You mean kind of like a Revan case. After Revan gets mind wiped and reprogrammed by the Jedi, which explained how he was able to relearn the force so quickly, except he was retaught it and likely some of his passed memories bubbled up and helped him Relearn everything faster.
No. Revan had their (his/her) mind wiped and accessed their physical memory, how they moved, and subconscious memory, as well as skills, to become a Jedi again. Spoiler With Rey, she may have forgotten the actual lessons she was taught, but not what she learnt. She may even have been unknowingly using her force skills most of the day, everyday to help her put food on here table. Survival can be a great teacher and trainer of even the Force. Plus, she may have grown into her abilities. It's like someone as an adult picking up a guitar and finding they can play, apparently out of the blue, then later being reminded by a senior family-member that they had lessons when they were little.
While a good explanation, that's sadly unlikely. The recent book released, Rey's Survival Guide, establishes that she's been there since a small child, with props and memories to establish that fact. The memories would be understandable, but not so much some of the items brought up and added to the book. It kind of glosses over how someone could survive on their lonesome there before even hitting double digits, but there's plenty of plot holes to be had in these books.
Is the living force concept still canon? Because that could explain somewhat as to how Rey survived on her own for so long as a child. I'm not saying it's a good explanation, but it is one...partly.
Just read up on what happened to the EU. Found out it is now called Star Wars Legends, which does make me hope that eventually they may return to it as an alternate but more adult universe kind of thing. But I also realised something else. It was George Lucas' idea to do a new trilogy, years before he sold Lucasfilm to Disney, and he's had a funny relationship with the EU. So it is possible that it was Lucas' idea to kill off the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_expanded_universe
