If people are that worried or angry about bikes/termies/etc being pushed back or the lack of number of vehicles (nevermind that the baseline for them being in game means adding more is a hell of a lot easier,) then the answer isn't pushing balls to the wall for Terminators (and equivalents) to be rushed in... technically it'd be the removal of vehicles so more time could be spent on the other factions to make sure they get into game on time and have the same amount of work the Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines are getting. So, not even worried about Termies/etc at launch than I am working on the other factions and not seeing more cuts. Though, once Terminators/etc do make it in post launch, hope there's a lot of look variation and maybe even the ability to use more than the standard pattern.
This is why those 2000 threads on next faction polls were very premature. Im hoping they dont even consider another faction until the game is sort of what it was supposed to be.
Worrying about additional factions before the current ones are fully fleshed out is absolute heresy. Be concerned about the mounting cuts to "expected" features before worrying about someday possibly there could be an entire additional faction.
and also a faction leader wearing terminator armor, and the faction reveal artwork etc etc... topic like that really show how deep is the fracture between people on tbe forum and other players that rappresent the 95% of the future game population. "hey guyz! we all love terminator right? we want termintator right? let's the dev know that we really want termintator!!! let's the dev listen to us because is OUR money!!! and people on the forum: "nooo how you dare??? you can't! you know nothing! about game development (but i know!!! i know all!!!)" "noo you cannot ask you are a bad person because you want more stuff in the game!! you are a whiny childer that can only warp my opinion and put stuff on my mouth!!! you should feel bad and your opinion is bad" "noo dev are doing that for a reason (and i know that reason because i know game development) and you cannot ask that stuff!! noo you are wrog!!!" erc etc i've already read this discussion: it's happened during the "sidegrade" discussion, i remember people claiming that founder are supposed to have advantage over non founder or that is fine to give assault bike only to founder. remember guys the internet is reading you, there is tons of lurker and they follow this game and wait patiently: there is people that still running away after reading some post on the sidegrade discussion.
Brother. Please. We're honestly trying to help, not attack you. I don't think the posts by myself, Phelan, Sleepylion, Xebov (the four of us seem to offer the largest counter-arguments at this point) and a few others were in any way intended to silence you (or anyone else) or tell you that your concerns are unwarranted. What I (and I'm assuming the others mentioned above) were hoping to do was bring logic to the discussion in the hopes that everyone could understand the (presumed) challenges facing the team and why it would be difficult to bring Terminators into the game before launch. Everything we said was backed up by Nathan's message to Bladerunner. There was no malice intended.
Thanks for your patronizing tone, unfortunately this dispute is not so much about logic, more about resources which are short...shorter than any of us had thought before. No brother, it was the other way round, everything Nathan had said in 'Titans maybe' you just repeated while we tried to find a creative solution, that's the difference. Yeah, right.
the problem is: players can't make other understand the problem of the game development: because they aren't the developers! They have no idea of what is really happening inside the team and what problem the team have. it's extremely simple! Not even the dev can really explain us the problem behind that: because they can't, even the most transparent developer can't tell us ALL the decision, they can tell us something, they can explain us something but we will never know all because for example they can't share reserved stuff. To someone external to the forum someone that only follow the game casually this discussion is only 30 pages of people that have no idea what is really happening that try to convince other people that want a feature, that they are wrong about asking that. AND NOBODY CARES! Because players care about feature in the game, about when the game is realased or playable if the game have terminator or not, or if the game have Tau, or necron and if not when that stuff will be put in the game when the expansion will come out etc etc.. Nathan explanation is: we have limited resource, or we develop A feature or we develop B feature. (and we all asking ourself " but the game was not supposed to be full funded?") basically nathan answer is: we don't have enugh money for "reasons" (he don't really explain us WHY they have limited resource he don't explain us where this resource are gone) and our answer is: "create the terminator and we will throw in the money because a lot of people like terminator and more people willl buy the game for that reason!" Nobody care WHY they don't give us terminator: (because they will never really explain why), nobody want to read explanation WHY something is after release (in particular from other people on a forum). We are talking about that pile of money with "terminator" write on it (and other feature delayed etc etc), that the dev don't want to take.
Well, discussing a matter isn't harmful and most of those threads understand that something like an additional faction is a far out issue. I've learned a good bit about some of the other factions due to them but I also know that, especially now, it'll be a while before we might even see one which is fine with me. Don't know how involved they'll be, bE never said they'd be modeled in game or be interactive. So, what they appear as doesn't really have any bearing on the game, development wise. Wow, how...full of misinformation and misunderstanding. No one said anything about being a know it all, but in this case many of the people telling you about the reasoning for the change was directly confirmed TWICE by the senior producer meaning they weren't lying and actually did know what was going on based on previous experience with game development cycles. Never said you had to LIKE the reasons. Also, never claimed you had to shut up or were a bad person for campaigning for your ideas....just like those who are opposed to the immediate idea or have a variation on it aren't, either. Many people want Terminators but the main rift is when and how they handle/accept the situation. It's not so clear cut as "This person said something contrary to my idea HE'S EVILLLLLLLLLLL!!!! AND HATES ME/MY IDEAS/ETERNAL CRUSADE/IS A BROWN NOSER." Well, to be fair, there's a couple of threads like that (BT situation, I'm looking at you!) and while it drives some people away, I'd say a huge chunk of those that will be playing don't even read the forums or know about the bigger "issues" we've had. In fact, I've made quite a few friends from them He was trying to be sincere but way to be an ass about it. This dispute was about a few people being so incensed (to varying degrees) about a change to development that they needed an avenue to discuss what they thought was wrong... and basically kept throwing whatever they felt out at people who didn't agree. Yea, they have fewer resources which sucks. But that's how shit goes unless you're Star Citizen. And everything we said was backed up by Nathan a second time. I'm all for creative solutions but not a lot of that has really gone down in the thread (some, yes.) I'm fine talking about Terminators and the way they might work, but I know they really won't ever be put back before launch, as much as that is unfortunate. Oh, I don't know...I've been playing games near on 25-30 years and this isn't my first rodeo or many others. While we don't know the specifics of what's going on inside bE, we can make a TON of really well informed decisions based on the actions bE takes because things like this have happened many many times before during many other game developments. So yes, some players can help make others understand because we've seen it before. We may not be right all the time, obviously, but we generally propose the ideas first and then wait for the devs to either confirm or deny. No dev will be 100% transparent, this is true. There will be some things we just don't know or aren't aware of but in situations like this isn't pretty easy to understand the outcome of some of those unforeseen issues... like knowing what was the response towards cutting a feature. Almost exactly. No one said it was wrong, stop playing the victim. And if they have half a brain they read it for themselves and come to their own conclusions. How I hate the "FULLY FUNDED" diatribe. Developer goes "I have an idea for a game! Let me attempt to secure funding so I can make it a reality!" And then goes "Ok, X will cost Y money, etc etc etc." only, it's never that simple because some of it's guess work on how long a feature will take, how easy/hard it becomes to implement in any given engine they finally decide to choose, etc. Devs go, SWEET we did well on Founder's and also got a loan/backing from another company that will let us theoretically achieve our game! Except that, during development, costs overrun or things get off track and maybe time becomes an issue. Features get cut or moved around, pushed farther back or worked in differently. Fully funded doesn't mean unlimited money, just that the game is actually going to happen (regardless of the Founder's money.) They did explain why we can't have Terminators at launch, you just don't like the answer...and that's fair. Maybe it's smoke and mirrors and they're fibbing... or they're telling the truth but that's up for you to decide. I'm going with them telling the truth because it's a pretty logical response and it makes sense for what we've seen so far. I'm pretty sure Nathan and the others would love your "Terminator" money....but it doesn't change the fact (currently, as all things can change,) that money wouldn't be used until after launch once they decided to work on Terminators. I think Termies are cool, powerful, etc. I think they're really important....just not to the core game or before launch. It's fine to talk about them and want them in and to try to keep making it so, but it's really probably never going to happen and I'd focus on making everything else still slated to be in, remains that way. I'd also rather them work on other stuff than Terminators, first, by a long shot.
I apologize if that came across as patronizing. Based on how I worded it, I could see how you would interpret it that way. It wasn't my intention. I meant only that we were offering our own logic to what we saw as reasonable constraints facing the dev team as to why we couldn't get Termies sooner. I'll be 100% honest with you. I never read that thread. I could care less about Titans. I thought the reply you posted from Nathan was a personal message he sent to you. That's the response I was referring to. It could be that there is no good solution to this. As Grigdusher pointed out above, we don't know what they're dealing with inside the studio. I can speak from my past experiences that money and resources are not always solutions. Sometimes it doesn't matter how much money or people you throw at something, you can't speed things up. Particularly with bottlenecks in the development process. When we talk about adding a class like the Terminator and all of the balancing that would need to happen in order to do that (while they still haven't balanced or finished any of the 4 factions and their classes), that is what I would consider a bottleneck that won't go away no matter what kind of money we throw at it. There's only one game and it needs to be balanced in it's entirety, not in pieces. That's why I think the balancing/coding alone would be a bottleneck. Look, all I can do is tell you what my intentions are. I'm not personally attacking you or anyone else.
........................that's is extremely fun. who cut the feature? why they cut the feature? or why they can't use pikko server for example?
