For the love of god i'm grumpy this morning and THIS DAMN THREAD HAS SERVED IT'S PURPOSE. THIS ISN'T MY FIRST RODEO, I'V HEARD THIS SONG AND DANCE A THOUSAND TIMES BEFORE, THE FAT LADY SUNG ON THIS TOPIC, THE HORSE HAS BEEN DRAWN, QUARTERED, SPAT ON, BEATEN MERCILESSLY WITH IT'S OWN SEVERED LIMBS, BURNED, AND THEN HAD IT'S ASHES SPREAD INTO A VAT OF ACID BEFORE SAID ACID WAS LAUNCHED OUT OF A ROCKET INTO THE SUN WHICH WILL THEN COLLAPSE INTO A BLACK HOLE AND CONDENSES THE ENERGY SO THOROUGHLY THAT IT WILL BE DESTROYED ON A SUBATOMIC LEVEL. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH! ....I'm sorry everybody, i'm getting mad at video games. I'm going to go grab a coffee.
No they don't. And they especially don't need AI squadmates. You seem to be hung up on the numerical facts, like X-amount of Guardsmen equal one Astartes. 40K, at least in the background, doesn't work that way. We're not talking about using the IG equivalent of a basic infantryman, which would probably be a Cadian. We are talking about the IG equivalent of Marines, Paratroopers, and up to Tier One soldiers. Well at least I am. This type of soldiers have special weapons and tactics that enable them to take on superior forces. So imagine playing as a Tanith or Catachan, luring in a squad of enemy Astartes into a booby-trapped area then opening fire on them from protected and concealed cover with Hotshots. Now imagine it's a squad of 10 players like that. Astartes are going to die. Then you and your squad pull a fade. But if that same IG soldier gets caught in melee with an Astartes at full health, he is going to die. Okay. So this type of gameplay would best fit Veteran players, or ones with a particular liking for certain gameplay. But what's wrong with that. It'd be like playing EC on Hard or Veteran mode. Not all five at the same time, that would be silly. But there would be at least five different Regiments. And considering that you have Dark Angels, who are prepared to kill everybody to keep the Fallen a secret, and Blood Angels, who under the Red Thirst can turn on allies, there may be Regiments who have bad history with one or more Chapters present on Arkhona. Plus there's always the chance of one side mistaking the other for forces of the Archenemy causing an IG versus SM battle. Or even external manipulation from the Eldar or even certain Chaos factions. It would be a bad idea to have a single reason to justify all the Imperial versus Imperial battles EC could have, each one could have its own reason, or there could be a single reason for a campaign of such battles in EC.
Here's the thing, barring being a named character, Imperial Guard...even elites, even with special equipment, even with every single advantage....will generally die four to one against an Astartes. The only units that won't are units not strictly part of the guard: Members of the Offico Assassinarioum for example. It doesn't matter if you're from Cadia, Tanith, Krieg, Catachan, whatever, Harker at best rivals a Space Marines endurance and strength because humans are still humans compared to Astartes and nothing short of the SoB's power armor conceals the fact that they are made of soft jello, a single bolter round will just end them. This isn't fanboyism either, the setting has been this way since forever, and yet it appears pointing out that Astartes very much emphasize the super in supersoldier is equatable to Wardian bullshit.
And yet the background is full of squads of humans that kill SM. Armies of humans that take on armies of SM and Win! And yes, the odds are against them. Yet they still succeed! An army of SM against an equal number of IG, and on paper the SM will win 99% of the time. But then you add in that IG can take more vehicles, like Leman Russ variants, and special weapons than the SM force, then that percentage begins to change in favour of the IG. Have the majority of the IG force emplace themselves on one side of the battlefield so that most of the SM have to cross it and the percentage moves more in favour of the IG. Then change them to veterans, including the commander, and again it changes. Okay. So its only around 25% in favour of the IG, at best, but that is a long way from 99%. And that's just a basic IG Regiment. Change it to a specialist Regiment and the odds can change again. SM are super soldiers, but that can breed an arrogance, an assumption that they are human tanks in comparison to a normal human and that no IG could kill them. But that is a weakness that can leave them vulnerable to an IG attack especially if it is using advanced tactics. Numerical superiority is an IG strength, but it is only one strength they can bring to bear in a battle against Astartes.
The same applies to dire avenger and ork shoota lore-wise. The same doesn't apply to an imperial commissar guard with a power sword, or an ogryn, or a kasrkin with a plasma gun, or a autocanon-team. In any precedent video games, IG could be amazingly effective against marines (remember launcher spam from dow 1 ?)
Uh-huh, and what are the body counts for those? Not true, the Eldar are an inherently psychic race with unnatural strength and agility, the Orks are likewise with the emphasis on strength. You'll also notice that the Ork Shoota's we're dealing with seem to be quite a step above your average WAAAAAGH and Eldar Guardians just flat out aren't playable for the same reason Imperial Guard aren't, the Dire Avengers here are likewise probably going to be the best their Craftworld has to offer. Even the most elite Imperial Guard troops...save the Ogryn...are still at the end of the day, human. They will just lose in a fight where the numbers aren't insanely in the IGs favor, and even then retain a heavy body count.
the fanboyism for ig is simply shocking mixed in with amusement about flawed reasoning. seriously though, it is getting old. no IG, sorry.
Usually quite high, but that is what re-spawns are for. Occassionally it is even the SM forces that end up with the high casualty numbers. I disagree. A human, even a highly trained IG, does not have the level of strength and endurance as an SM. But thye can have equal if not superior skill, and in some regards training, than the SM. An example, the Raven Guard are masters of stealth. But so are the Tanith. A Tanith can out-stealth your average SM, and use those skills to their adavantage against Astartes.
Yeah, but can he out stealth a Raven Guard? and even when he can out stealth everyone else, would a member of Tanith even be able to leverage that much of an advantage against him anyway? See the problem is Lorewise he'd probably still kill two or three, and there's not a easy way to make massed infantry against an enemy with near constant respawns fun...and this is even assuming the Imperial Guard get the numbers of players needed to use those kinds of tactics.
