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The eternal (melee) battle

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DrDooManiC, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. As of now, mechanics are still under construction. But allready it can be seen how long melee fights take. Like, if two skilled people met and decide to take it the melee way... they are going to be fighting for quite a while. But most of the time they do not have that while. Most of the time they either get allies who help them or ranged classes shooting at that noble but lone warrior.
    we had show-duels going to see how melee is. And it is quite... long.

    My suggestion here is simple. If you win in that rock-paper-scissor engagement (Eg. D-Bash vs light attack) your enemy should take damage. maybe just like 50% or so. not if you clang, or both do the same. So if you do everything correct, you still got all your health left.

    What do you think? Should something be changed or should one melee dude just keep the other melee dudes away from their fragile ranged brothers or keep him busy until help arrives?
  2. Scales Neuroactive Arkhona Vanguard

    Shield marines are hard enough to kill in melee (when not using a dedicated melee class), locking them up and area signaling with q is about the easiest way to put them down imo
    kinda feel it would put them ahead by more of a margin than the other melee classes.
  3. I think we should wait for the Coming Melee Enhancement Patch, whenever that is.

    Melee fights taking too long? Perhaps they are. In a way, I kinda miss the old hard counter system with big stuns. At least you knew better what to expect, despite being punished harshly for one wrong guess. Feel free to kill me for this unpopular opinion. :D But really, I'm just waiting it out until the melee system gets better fleshed out and refined.
    ArtemK likes this.
  4. Pouncey Pouncey Subordinate

    My favorite thing about melee is seeing a spread-out conga line of my allies going in one direction, then one enemy melee guy comes, attacks the first guy, kills him, goes to the next-closest, kills him, goes to the next one, kills, and so forth.

    Since we were all ranged classes, couldn't do much about it since shooting into melee is a no-no. So instead I just stood there, watching, as he got slowly closer, then when it came to be my turn I opened up with my heavy weapon for a short burst before he plants his melee weapon in my skull and it's all over.

    Functionally it reminds me of the old tabletop edition which made it possible for a strong melee unit to wipe out an enemy unit in two rounds, then on their turn, charge into the next enemy unit, wipe IT out in two round, and continue that way until a single unit had wiped out half the enemy army without taking a single round of shooting in-between.
    Forj likes this.
  5. Wiawyr Wiawyr Deacon

    So you admittedly stood there in a line watching as a guy meleed through everyone ahead of you? Why didn't you reposition, flank the guy, go another direction so you weren't just waiting to die? If you can't aim well enough to get a hostile who is meleeing your allies (and honestly, being downed as an LSM is barely an inconvenience with Apothecary full-heal rezes), then do something to give yourself a chance. You're not forced to play like a lemming, that is a choice you make.
  6. Pouncey Pouncey Subordinate

    I was backing up to give myself more room.

    And frankly, my aim is pretty atrocious. In Planetside 2 I often have higher accuracy with hipfire than ADS.

    Next time a situation like that happens, I'll take your advice and turn around, run out of the room and go stand in the open outside the building and wait for him to emerge in search of more enemies. I'll admit that's a better plan.
  7. Wiawyr Wiawyr Deacon

    Well, if you're playing a class who's primary defense is ranged and you're saying you're bad at ranged, that's already one thing you can change. And sure, if you can't see a way to flank the melee guy and help your team, you should run away - it's what CSM was told to do with SBs, so why should you be special?
  8. BaronXIII Arkhona Vanguard

    I think it's important to note that melee doesn't always take a long time. Let's not confuse periodic long melee battles, with always having long battles. Think of it this way,

    1.) 2 ranged units fight, if they are equally skilled, the battle will likely be long as they both use cover and positioning and accuracy to win

    2.) 2 ranged units fight, if one is much more skilled it will likely be a fast battle with the more skilled player killing the enemy in a matter of a handful of seconds

    Then...

    1.) 2 melee units fight, if they are both skilled, they have a long duel

    2.) 2 melee units fight, if one is much better than the other, he will likely roflstomp the lesser skilled opponent in a matter of seconds

    Last...

    1.) A ranged unit and a melee fight in melee, it is likely the melee unit will kill the ranged unit in a matter of seconds UNLESS the ranged player can "out play" the melee unit using current melee mechanics and counters

    2.) a ranged unit and a melee fight in ranged, it is likely the ranged unit will kill the melee unit in a matter of seconds UNLESS the melee unit uses cover and positioning, and gap closing abilities to close into a melee fight.

    I don't think there really is a problem with the time it takes to kill in melee, I think you just keep running into people who know how to duel. If you fight a less skilled opponent, it should be quick, if you fight a skilled opponent, it should take a time investment.
    Sleepylion and Lord_Cucatrap like this.
  9. As you suggest, if a melee player is unaware of the other melee player, the one that ambush the other will win. If they are both aware of themselve the battle will be long IF there is no other factor, where as in a team tactical game is a rare.

    Pretty much the battle will be eternal if is only a 1 vs 1 both equally skilled, until someone drops off. But you almost always will be shoot or atacked in the back by another melee player.

    It´s seems reasonable for me.
    BaronXIII likes this.
  10. Pouncey Pouncey Subordinate

    For reference, I have 10 hours of time spent in Eternal Crusade. More than 2 of those hours were spent today. Also, I'm worse at melee than I am at ranged right now, as in melee I basically hit random attacks and hope for the best because my reflexes and mental processing speed are too slow to actually react properly in time with my current level of expertise with the game.

    And sorry, I wasn't being sarcastic, it really would've been the better option in that scenario and I'm still learning the game.

    And I didn't say I was bad at ranged. I said I was bad at avoiding hitting allies who are in melee while shooting at the enemy they're in melee with. When it comes to hitting an enemy who's not near any of my allies I do fine. If my allies hadn't been there I probably would've killed him with little problems. Also I make a terrible sniper in any shooting game ever. Precision shots I'm bad at. Aiming the crosshairs at the enemy and either holding down the trigger or firing bursts are things I'm good at.

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