If it's the battle tank that the space marines mainly use wouldn't that, by definition, make it a main battle tank?

The super heavy baneblade is 13.5m long, 8.5m wide and 6m tall and weighs ~300 tonnes
The land raider is 10m long, 6m wide, 4m tall and weighs 70 tonnes
The maus is 10m long, 3.5m wide, 3.5m tall and was weighs 180 tonnes

As I said earlier, if it was as heavily armoured as its size would suggest, it would definitely be considered a super-heavy. As it stands its a heavy tank that is used like a super-heavy and as such that is what I am calling it, same as I am calling the predator a battle tank despite it being more appropriately called an AFV.

EDIT: I tend to classify tanks by how they are used. Same way the Panther was called a medium by the Germans but a heavy by the Allies.
IMO
Light tanks; small, fast tanks designed for scouting
Medium (and MBT): the bulk of the tank battalions due to versatility (bigger than light, smaller than heavy)
Heavy: larger tanks designed for leading assaults and breaking holes in lines or for holding off larger numbers of lighter vehicles
Super-Heavies: the biggest tanks available, breaks bigger holes or holds off more opposition

A Main Battle Tank is actually a particular concept in tank warfare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_battle_tank

Before, due to limitations of power plants, weight of armour, and weapons, you had to choose between the three.
So fast tanks had less armour and lighter weapons, as such they were named light tanks, cruiser tanks, or even tankettes.

The second type sacrificed speed and weapons for armour. They were designated heavy tanks or infantry tanks as they were fielded in concert with infantry.

The final type had low speed and armour but carried weapons powerful enough to destroy most other tanks. They were even called tank destroyers.


But your modern Main Battle Tank combines all three. It has speed comparable with cruiser tanks, armour at least as protective as the heavy tanks, and a weapon that wouldn't be out of place on the old tank destroyers.

Your basic Predator Destructor does not fulfil the MBT role. It has armour lighter than both the Leman Russ, Land Raider and Battlewagon, but roughly equal to most Eldar tanks, plus it's main weapon is relatively ineffective against the big armoured vehicles of most factions in the game.
And even if you get an Annihilator, it's armour is still that bit weaker than many other 40K MBTs.

The Land Raider is definitely an MBT, it is powerful enough to keep up with the Predator across the battlefield, it has probably the best armour on a tank outside the Super-Heavy class, on top of that it has 3 twin-linked lascannons as its main armament.


A Super-Heavy in 40K is a special definition with its own rules and stats. GW do not designate a Land Raider as a Super-Heavy.

That is a very British split of tanks. If we were to look at the Americans, they had light tanks which were used for scouting, medium tanks for infantry support and tank destroyers which were very lightly armoured but heavily armed and very fast vehicles designed to flank enemy armour. Heavy tanks were rare (the Pershing was originally designated as a heavy due to the role it filled during WW2 but was dropped down to medium after the war). The medium tanks (for the U.S atleast) were never intended to fight other tanks but due to crews wanting to or being forced to fight enemy armour eventually saw them get upgunned to field more effective armour-piercing shells.

The first main battle tanks were (in simplest terms) up-gunned medium tanks. Armour was thick enough to resist smaller AT weaponry but against new vastly more powerful tank guns (like more advanced apds rounds) meant that it would require staggering thicknesses of armour to resist it, so they opted to make tactics like going hull-down and firing on the move much easier for crews to use (increased vertical traverse and advanced gun gyros and targeting systems, respectively). This very general design made other forms of tank (and afv's) obsolete as these new battle tanks could fill almost all roles effectively enough and advances in armour technology would see them receive armour that was more effective than their medium or even heavy tank forebears.

The predator fills the role of an MBT for the space marines, it doesn't matter if other tanks fit the role more effectively. The land raider, being rare as it is, can't be used as the main battle tank for the marines and the way it is usually deployed is as a heavy/super-heavy role. As I said before, you can call it for what it is, I call it for what role it fills.

This isn't TT

Well considering that GW is a British company they probably used the British definition.
Also, remember the tank was a British innovation and so are some of the best innovations linked with tanks. Chobham for instance.

They made other forms of battle tank obsolete, but not the APC AFV's like the Warrior and the Bradley, or smaller scout types like the British CVRT's. They are still used.

But the role the Predator fills is usually infantry support. It doesn't infiltrate and scout, it doesn't charge in to assault, and the Destructor variant can't hunt most enemy MBT's.
Meanwhile the Land Raider can fill most of those roles (not scouting obviously).

But it is based on it and its Universe.
Plus, the official background supports the Land Raider as an MBT.
If you have a problem with that fact, please take it up with Games Workshop.

Nothing confirms the fact that TT is based off British ideology alot more than the Imperial Guard units. I mean just look at those vehicles and uniforms plus some of the original color schemes.

The Land Raider is not an MBT.

It's more what would be considered an "assault tank". It's big, slow, and sacrifices a turret for ridiculously heavy armor. Its job is primarily to push the front and act as a big chunk of moving cover for infantry. In the Land Raider's case, it also has some capacity to carry said infantry inside it.

The fact that its large size gives it room to mount some pretty decent guns is a secondary consideration.

The Predator in its default configuration is a tad under-gunned for an MBT, acting more as a medium infantry support tank, but is much closer to being an MBT than the Land Raider is.

Armor-wise it is entirely adequate. AV13 is pretty much typical MBT armor in 40k, which is what the Predator and Hammerhead both have on the front. Its sides are a little thin, but hey you get what you pay for.

The Leman Russ is more on the "Heavy Tank" side of things, but also falls roughly within the MBT area since MBT is a broader definition than the light/medium/heavy classifications.

For example, the Leopard 2 is 62.3t, the T-72 is 41.5t, and the M1 Abrams is 57t. But they're all classified as MBTs. (all values are in metric tons for convenience)

I didn't realize the Astartes paid for anything, if they did, they should be asking for their money back because in most cases the armor they field tend to be found wanting.

In response to the actual real life counterparts, the reason they're MBTs is because most countries have stopped producing multiple different tanks and are instead creating several specialized variant of the same chassis kind of like what is seen on the Leman Russ. The Leman Russ I wouldn't classify as a heavy battle tank in general, only certain variants because by itself it is basically a medium tank of the future, everything is scaled up in deadliness.

It's a figure of speech

Yep, cause the rhino chassis isn't used extensively by the Space Marines
More seriously though, the IG and SM are 2 seperate forces within the Imperium and as such they use different vehicles for different roles. The IG's mbt is the Leman Russ and the SM's use the Predator, I agree that the Russ is much better in the role, but the SM's don't use the Russ.

They should, I mean just look at the name. Granted it would have to be enlarged to accommodate an Astartes crew, it really is a much better all rounder. I just want the devs to announce the IG already for being the next faction so I can immediately start throwing money at them and get my Commissar. We need to enforce discipline in this unruly mob of fighters.

Besides the fact that GW is British.
The entire dystopian Sci-Fi is influenced by British society during the Thatcher years.
Or that Imperial Guard combat is based off the British forces experience of World War I. The original IG models would wear Breastplates similar to the Household Cavalry's.
Even the human tanks in 40K are based of tanks like the British MK I.

The Land Raider moves at the same speed as the Predator. So how can it be slower!

GW says the Land Raider is an MBT.

I Repeat; Games Workshop Designate The Land Raider As A Main Battle Tank!

It is their universe, their IP. So their designations trump my opinions, your opinions and anybody else's opinions.

My Apologies for being a bit loud.


Would it help if I pointed out that before the Horus Heresy the Imperial Guard (Imperial Army as it was) could field at least a variant of the Land Raider, usually as a command tank for Leman Russ detachments or regiments.
I think they might even have been able to field Rhino's.