I think all melee needs to balance out is; -RPS counters need to counter it's proper move. Currently this is broken and not working as DBash counters or goes right through heavy attack. -Dbash needs to stun exactly 1 quick attack animation time. So basically if you Dbash correctly, you should be rewarded with 1 free quick attack. -Evade should break stun, and the only thing that does. They should also slow the regen rate of evade/stamina across the board (including fuel) by a small bit, so it gives more value and reason to take stamina gear. This also gives everyone a way out of stun lock. -When using correct RPS move, your opponent should be interrupted and prevented from further spamming fast attack in the duration it takes you to do one counter. This way proper counter is winning as they should. (you know, when you dbash and still get 2-3 fast attacks against you before you finished your animation) -Weapon durability damage should only be half to the victor of RPS. This would allow knives to win against dedicated melee via superior skill. JPA when hit with melee should have the same effect on their movement as hitting a fleeing melee, in their case it should be a wing clip. All of this combined should completely get rid of rmb spammers, allow skilled players to triumph, even if they only have a knife. Reapers/Devs/Havokcs ext need a Pistol, at least so they can plunk of a few shots. Combine with Dbash used correctly and they have a small chance. Also means they are better selecting a non auto aim pistol for better damage. This will give them a chance, but still hardest of all classes.
Been playing Ork recently because csm / lsm = OP and I prefer to fight for the underdog faction (and Elves. . .a Dwarf never forgets) - slight lore cross over there Ork: Quick attack is useless Defensive Bash is even more useless But omg Strong Attack cuts through everything and its so fast! about as fast as quick attack! (using Chain Choppa) Looking forward to consistent RPS system and melee hit detection with free flowing attack animations.
Alright im home now :: lets kick this off. Abbadons grace does 133 damage per shot It has 130 pen it has a spread of 3 degrees a recoil of .45 or 45% and hip at 1.5 or 150% which means before the debuff it does 266 damage in 2 shots not counting a headshots. thats already enough that the simple 50 damage debuff will kill you raw with no LP on survive ability. a VETERAN apoth has access to highest EHP against this weaon on SM not counting shield blocks just straight DPS to the chest plate. due to the aforementioned "cheaper EHP items, you have 2 options. top tier armor which provides 135 toughness aka almost full damage with no mitigation as pen and toughness toughness are within 5. 266 X.96 = 255(rounded) +50 for one stack is still over 300 and another 50(even though stacked debuffs intensify) puts you over your EHP potential by about 20 with no outside buffs assisting the AG like the ranged banner or a debuff on you like warp instability. option number 2 :: second tier armor :: which comes out to 125 toughness so still full damage 266, BUT you can afford 357 FLAT EHP because you arent stacking toughness that couldnt save you anyway. 357 -266 = 91. aka you still die by your conservative figures in 2 hits from an abbadons grace BY MATH ALONE there isnt even a close chance for survival. it is over your max Hp by 30 hp by YOUR figures. Heres 2 stacks of AG http://plays.tv/video/582a6acd4661870b96/2-stacks-of-ag?from=user it ticks 50, 50, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10 orrrrrrrr 150 damage..... which blows your figures out of the water. 266 + 150 = or 416 EHP !!!! and you need 130 + toughness to change that damage at ALL !! so like i said i HAVE no idea how at 357 EHP optimum you are surviving that shot, especially since i wasnt under the influence of the ranged chaos banner which could have pushed that damage up another 20+ damage ..... lets not even consider how INSANE this could be with just ONE headshot !!!! not even 2. hang in there folks im going to go flak some skritches .....
heres a perfect example of flak :: http://plays.tv/video/582a7a3d81af556845/perfect-flak-example-?from=user 5 misses 0 hits and 100 xp for killing the guy i missed !! WOOOOOOT !!!! mad fairs such balance..... now consider the Heavy bolter has a 3 degree spread (same sized retical). only a .3/.7 spread (15% less/ and less than half aka 80% raw difference). here is the heavy bolter at .7 recoil .... hipfire. http://plays.tv/video/582a7c127aea6715ee/heavy-bolter-7-recoil?from=user notice the ride up as the gun fires EACH SHELL OF THE AC SHOULD BE RIDING UP over 2x that distance !!!! or for those of you inclined 1 and a half retical radius or 4.5 degrees off target per shot which is a lot. thats enough at some ranges just outside close for it to kick more than an eldar silhouette after each shot. here is the heavy bolter at .3 or braced fire. http://plays.tv/video/582a7c52ac244018ea/heavy-bolter-at-3?from=user The ac should be deflecting off target by 15% more than the HB per shot taken ..... It just doesnt do that and it allows you to shooty around corners or in the general vicinity of flying players and hit them with no engaged agency from the player, and no "skill" to control it. i'm going to go grab a coffee and wait for the reality denying to begin..... heres the scoreboard at the end of the match .... look at all the devastators on the top of the leader board ... http://plays.tv/video/582a7e0f79ab6eb4dc/scoreboard-?from=user look particularly at me as i am TERRIBLE at devastator ... ask ghouram .. and i still finished middle of the field ... it also important to note it took me 4 MATCHES to even find an enemy JPA since no one plays JPAS against chaos because flak is cheese. it absolutely mystifies me that people can just gloss over this weapon and think its fine.
Takes 3 shots to rack up 50 ticks on the dummies at the garrison. That's why you edited it to only show 1 shot.
no its because it took several record attempts to not have the 50 blocked out or overwritten by the base damage of the weapon which always shows in the front and all the floaters show directly in the same spot at many angles. Its ok though i knew those that didn't believe when i went into this would find some asinine way to rationalize it. tell me exactly how much does the AC do in base damage at 130 or less toughness with one headshot figured in ? go do some work of your own and tell me how that turns out. then tell me how if you shoot over someone, and it autocorrects and it autocorrects to the CLOSEST part of the model where would that be ? would it be better if a mashed up a montage of say like 20 instances i 2 shot people with the AG ? no im sure it wouldnt im sure you would still find a way to deny it. i had a good 5-7 in that game i recorded the flak alone ...... i didn't record them because i wasn't particularly expecting to need them. heres another fun fact from last night in the first game i played, i never found a JPA in the game im sure there was one or 2 but i never saw them, however at first spawn out of 9 players 6 spawned next to me with AG in a pug game ....... 6 out of 9 players chose AG ? gee i wonder why ........ how about the recoil ? how about the spread ? how about the shot where i missed the guy 5 times, this discussion was originally about Flak and how bullshit it is. its not like the flame debuff is the only thing going for this weapon .... it can still double headshot by aiming above someone and missing. plus the debuff on top of way overkill unresistable double headshot super damage that homes to the target. essentially when you reach 2 stacks the debuff goes up to 50 a tic, depending on how close together in timeframe the shots are but even if you dont the dot ticks at 10 so if you refresh the time its still more than the "only 50" that the original naysayer qouted, you could theoretically not push it up to 2 stacks if the time between hits is too much, there is also the fact that debuff stacks i believe and i could test this tonight apply more from behind or on headshots much like they apply more on the narth on a fierce or a back shot ..... im pretty sure my shots were headshots, but if 2 separate players opened fire simultaneously and landed 1 shot each the debuff would short circuit all the way to max time 2 stacks ..... and probably tick for even more, no idea if the damage floaters would even pick that up ... depends on how they work and who sees what damage and on timing as well .... this weapon can absolutely 2 shot just on base damage alone with head shots, and at its fire rate you cant even react between shot 1 and shot 2 its actually impossible human reaction time isn't fast enough. Most times the AC is dodged the target was already moving and just "happened" to move were the AC user didn't follow .... its also quite possible that i opened fire too early from the last attempt and there was still debuff bar, but no damage floaters showing, i don't think this is the case however because i can 2 shot people very frequently in PvP with the AC even when they are buffed i even 2 shot an apoth last night at the top of the stairs on the way into the b point with 2 body shots, if as you say it only does 50 for 2 stacks he should have not only been able to survive the 2 hits he should have had the time to narth himself but he didn't on either counts, but i wasnt particularly eithe rpaying attention to my squad leaders location in respect to me or what banner he had ... because i was pugging. lets say for the sake of argument it DOESNT even do the higher damage ..... would it really matter ? If your squad leader has the ranged banner aren't we still in overkill range on 2 shots ? can the havok wear the damage banner ? are there buffs from spells that can affect your damage and would reasonable be applied fairly frequently: slaanesh heal, warp instability, banners, positional modifiers like back hits. I think even if you retract the damage back down to the lower amount it still shows that 2 shots to kill is a very attainable thing on the AG.
My god, you were right all along. Every gun has Flak! Just look at this Flak on the Bolt Pistol! What you are showing, and experiencing, is called Lag. As I have told you several times now, this allows shots that do not display a hit marker to register hits, and shots that do display hit markers to not register hits. There is no "auto correction" on any weapon other than the Smart Pistols, what Flak is supposed to do is effectively increase the hitbox of your target, but it does not exist on the handheld Autocannon. Edit: Where's my Flak if this is such a consistent thing for the Autocannon? The simple answer - There is none.
ah yes the golden goose, LAG we can blame anything on lag ... lets just do that you missed the JPA because of lag ofc im sure he was way ahead of were it showed him O.- everything is lag its all lag every time we get shot or every time we dodge it must be lag too .... debuff variation lag, spawning ... lag, 2 shots ... lag its all lag bro everything is lag when the pc shoots you with a charged shot its lag. guess what then whenever a melee kills you its just lag bro we dont need to change anything its all lags fault.... sheesh gimme a break champ :-/ . there wasn't lag involved in mine i pulled the shots over and to the left of him on purpose, if his hitbox was bigger it wouldn't have mattered i shot the wall by the window next to him, all we are experiencing here is your delusion. there was no lag in your video either its likely a bug that he didnt get wingclipped ... did you ask him if he took damage ? im sure you didn't he might well have just not enough to kill him, probably enough he should have been clipped but didn't, its quite possible DUE TO LAG he took the damage a few seconds later after your video clip ended .... quick question while you were shooting at that JPA were was your 4.5 degree deflection per shot off target ? because you were hip firing ? were was your spread showing the bullets randomly outing inside the retical ... ill tell you were it went, to the magical place were unicorns go to frollick for fucking bollocks sake, there is no point in continuing this conversation i can't speak to an ostritch with its head in the sand. There is literally NOTHING i could do i could literally aim away from you, kill you in 2 hits with the AG MYSELF and you would still deny it happened to protect your magical rainbow gun. on a side note if you think the pistol has flak i cant help you bro your understanding of this conversation is between 0-.1% when you need 100% of the understanding to get it. AUTOTARGET is a completely different trait that WORKS COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY. FLAK does not move your crosshair in the UI it corrects the BULLETS AFTER FLIGHT to count as hits IF they are "CLOSE ENOUGH" regardless of recoil or spread. AUTOTARGET on the other hand once engaged(you have to push and hold a button that denies sprinting) moves the crosshair for you HOWEVER recoil and spread still apply they in fact had a bug a few patches ago where the autotarget due to vertical spread and recoil would miss all shots past the second on ORKs because of their stunted height. Sweet jesus if i have to explain the difference to you one more time i'm just blocking you and work with the people able to understand the 2 concepts. and ive already posted proof that autotarget doesnt even work all the time like you nancies at range seem to think it does. FLAK can fail too just like autotarget can especially against a close range fast moving target, however autotarget IS ONLY USABLE IN SHORT RANGE !!!!! the AC's non user triggered help is usable across the entire map !! with a rediculiously faster TTK and AUTOTARGET doesn't in any way eliminate the disadvantage thats supposed to come from the recoil and spread of the gun like FLAK does. i suggest before you post again you wait for answers form the devs since you cant trust me to tell you exactly what the tooltips told you before they removed them ..... or what most players already know from playing the game. hopefully brent will answer my question and i can then throw up autotarget in the same thread. then FINALLY when someone else you can't dispute explains it you'll get it. i mean its already been explained but your imagination is more accurate i suppose for you. but maybe just maybe your ego will get you to tell brent he wrong about the game hes making and that isnt how it works .... who knows only time will tell.
