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Swooping Hawks now become spotted when they fly...

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Redthirst, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. Redthirst Redthirst Eternal Battles Moderator

    So as some of you may have noticed, enemies seem to be more aware of Swooping Hawks now, to the point where you can sneak in undetected and still immediately come under fire.

    No, it's not because our enemies learned to watch the skies for Hawks.

    It's because now, every time you fly as a Swooping Hawk, you become marked on the minimap.

    This defeats the purpose of Hawks as a flanking class. This removes the element of surprise that, with their excellent mobility, was the only thing that could compensate for low HP and mediocre DPS. This actively punishes you for using your mobility. This is the biggest nerf that Hawks have received to date. This makes no sense. And yet it's a thing.

    Discuss.
    Anthrillien, Phyrak, Nether and 11 others like this.
  2. Just Hawk's or JPAs as well?
  3. Redthirst Redthirst Eternal Battles Moderator

    Haven't tested it with JPAs.
  4. Maensith Subordinate

    Though it may seem strange at the first look this case actually makes perfect sense if you understand what's the purpose of "balancing" within this game. It's nowhere near about making different races competitive to each other - it's about pretending that all factions are balanced while in reality key classes of every faction (apart from LSM and CSM, of course) are being gradually and discreetly deprived of their strengths, i.e. of what makes them suitable for combat roles they are, in theory, designed to fulfill.

    I dont believe (and I doubt someone can persuade me in the opposite) that those people, professionals, who actually develop all this stuff, dont fully understand all consequences of these "fixes" or "changes" for each class of every faction they are working on - if this feature's introduction makes Swooping Hawks extremely vulnerable then it's because they are supposed to be in this state - if this is obvious for you and me, this is more than obvious for the developmental team.

    Many players have constantly marked and noticed somewhat clumsy and "patchy" process of balancing with more than obvious "OP things" which have been constantly "fixed" only to be replaced with new ones later on - again, I dont believe this is because of devs' incompetence, absolutely. What we are currently observing is purposeful and gradual deprivation of eldar strengths so that, eventually, we become less competitive and incapable of any significant resistance to space marines who, as they are supposed to be, are the most favoured faction amongst players.

    If you look closely to the recently introduced changes you may notice that almost all eldar classes are nerfed in exactly the aspects they need to fulfill their combat roles effectively and efficiently:

    1. Swooping Hawks - mediocre DPS, low HP, shitty grenades (even haywire which do absolutely nothing) - ok, fine, they are supposed to be fragile due to their increased mobility, their greatest advantage is maneuverability which is effective MOSTLY only when they arent spotted while on the fly - mark them so that SMs can see where these units fly - perfectly!

    2. Striking Scorpions - mediocre DPS (really, those chainswords are easily breakable by higher tier weapons and dont do any serious damage, but ok), high HP - they are shadowy brawlers whose main advantage is attacking from stealth. They have already lost their ability to uncap in stealth - ok, fine. Now their advantage is negated completely by these servo-skulls - so a scorpion with his chainsword which is only stronger than damnit knuckles is actually useless in open combat against any opponent with a higher tier weapon.

    3. Banshees (my favourite class which continues to be raped - both literally and symbolically - in terms of its balance) - unlike scorpions banshees cant attack from stealth, their primary role is literally to take the heaviest toll of enemy melee, i.e. they must ALWAYS spearhead any attack when eldar push to capture/uncap some points or to simply drive enemy back. Now remember that the majority of maps are designed in such a way that defenders may simply tightly pack in groups with heavy weaponry and support classes nearby (and with those healing grenades Apothecaries always shit under their comrades) - and they're nigh unbreakable.

    Solution - right, make banshees even more fragile! Now I constantly find myself being killed with 2 shots from stalker bolter, 6-8 shots from boltguns and storm bolters, 2-3 shots from heavy bolters/abaddon's grace and 4-5 shots from a bolt pistol (yes, A DAMINT BOLT PISTOL, the weakest ranged weapon!!!) - it's almost common now for me when I perform a heavy attack, flying in the air towards my opponent and he downs me from a pistol or bolter even before I deliver a blow upon him! And this is performed not by veterans, even newbies can do it, experiencing ZERO problems with eldar "so small-and-hard-to-hit" hitboxes. It's nigh impossible to down a ranged class even in open territory being very close to him - just fire your damn bolter in every direction and you LITERALLY cant miss 5-6 times an eldar. Ah, I forgot - and make banshee scream affect even your allies so that they take 20% more damage from enemy as well - really, wtf??!!!! WHY, damnit!

    So to sum up all this stuff I've just written - dont consider this case as something "occasional" or "unintentional" - it's not. Even if this will be rectified in one way or another eldar will continue to get nerfs this or another way because NONE is supposed to be stronger than space marines.
    Anthrillien, Phyrak, Paquet and 4 others like this.
  5. IdranelLives IdranelLives Well-Known Member

    Yeah, this is garbage.

    Being detected so effortlessly utterly emasculates (emgyoculate?) the Swooping Hawk. We're the most fragile class in the most fragile faction, and now we're like Striking Scorpions who appear on the radar when we sprint.

    Except for not having an actual dedicated melee weapon set.
  6. I just want to pull up a chair and suckle at your collective tear ducts! Ohh the salt ohh the glorious salt! It flows so freely! I love patch 1.3 "tactical unbalance escalation bolter porn edition" for this very reason!
    Sigvald_Frostclaw likes this.
  7. Valentine Iyan Firebrand

    Ridiculous... Eldar are supposed to flank and we're being punished for doing so? v.v
  8. Safreadis Safreadis Arkhona Vanguard

    I was wondering about that! "How come these Marines know exactly where I am when I land OUT OF THEIR SIGHT?!?".... Right... Now when I die from 6 bolter rounds (that fire faster than my Hunter's Mark, of which I need 5 bullets to kill a marine), it's because I was flanking "as intended" and spotted on the minimap for it.

    I mean. Balance... Okay, then give me a weapon that has the exact same TTK a bolter has against me.
    Hawk weapons have lower DPS than a boltgun and Hawks have 2/3rds of a Space Marine Health. The mobility is useless given the fact you get spotted for doing your thing, flying.

    Question now. Why would Flying spot a Hawk on the minimap?
    Lore-wise, their wings are tiny feathers that all together generate an antigravity field that lift the Hawk from the floor. Nothing that produces light or sound that would justify a hawk to be spotted.

    JPAs have freaking ROCKET BOOSTERS! How can you not hear that? That's why JPAs are immediately spotted on the minimap when using their jumpack.

    Buuut... The role is different here.
    JPAs engage other units in close combat. If you hear/see on the minimap a JPA, you should see it real close to you in a few seconds.
    Hawks have rifles and need to get to good positions due to their squishiness to avoid dying on the spot. Positions from which they are unseen. But that is totally negated if everyone knows exactly where you are the moment you take off.

    Side Note: Marines actually look at their minimap, that's impressive.

    Oh, and about the banshee, a bolter sprays and prays in your general direction, rolls out and shoots again (you couldn't damage him 'cause Iframe) and there's no more Banshee.... Yeah.... And the scream is effectively useless to allow you to close the gap to melee. So, no useful tools for the Banshee to perform her role.

    Kinda triggered here.
    thantrus, Plazm, Phyrak and 10 others like this.
  9. Safreadis Safreadis Arkhona Vanguard

    It has always been the case for JPA, but like I said above, they have freaking rocket boosters. You'd be deaf not to hear that. Again as well, they perform different roles and have different ranges of engagement. Also, JPAs get regular melee weapons. ("But Eldar have more damage than LSM on melee". Yeah 'cause squishier, so need to deal more damage)
    Hawks get weakened rifles because they are "too mobile".


    LET ME KEEP MY "STEALTH" FLIGHT, THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT KEPT ME ALIVE!

    PS: sorry for the double post.
    Phyrak, Faeruin and IdranelLives like this.
  10. Redthirst Redthirst Eternal Battles Moderator

    You'd be surprised how often I can STILL sneak on someone, even when I'm marked on the minimap.

    As for Banshees, I played them like Scorpions even before launch, and I keep playing them like that now. You do die very fast, but you can still do decently well if you can sneak up into melee.

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