Are you talking about the white ones with bolters and can heal their team? Or the ones with colors and bolters that can cap? I just don't feel that the slugga should define that class. I've used it and, up close, outgunned a many foe, but Painboyz still feel worst that the average, semi-competent opposite faction support. I enjoy my slugga Painboyz and melee focused Painboyz, but I cannot say with any comfort or confidence that it's more impact to our faction, compared to the other supports and their factions. Yeah, people keep mentioning the slugga Painboyz, but don't realize that our role as support, and the tools given to use to fulfill them, are the worst of any faction.
The ones that can take Gravguns and Servo Skulls. Really, what else do you need to support your team?
In terms of support/healing Apothecaries>Sorcerer>Warlock>Painboy Can shoot AND heal at the same time as well as apply buffs. Easy to use healing spells allowing healing from cover but not much in terms of substantial buffs/curses. Warlock ok healing but very heavy on the buff, Eldar are to fragile to heal during a fire fight so mostly used outside of combat. Painboy has a easy to destroy healing nade with poor buffing vials for the current meta. In Terms of combat Apothecaries>Warlock>Painboy>Sorcerer Bolter just to good in the current meta. Warlock got speed and the occasional cheat in rps. Painboy has decent side arms making it better in range than a Warlock but worse in melee due to syringe. Sorcerer has bugged and under performing spells and nothing really to compensate them in melee, a bit better in a melee than a painboy but not by much.
Such an easy answer: Think about when you pick a Sorcerer/Painboy/Warlock you know your killing potential is going to drop which you willingly take to be able to support your team. Apothecary though? Just another day at the office; blast away and pop heals when you feel like it. The fact there are so many LSM playing Apos without ever healing anyone but themselves shows how strong they are.
What is it shows is they're objectively the worst support class for the majority of players because they're only healing people (other than with their grenade) after combat is over. Warlocks and Sorcs stand behind their teams and support them (I get so many kills by just swording the dude who runs up to the teammate I decided I would baby sit, because I'm not sitting there scoped up on a bolter) while Painboyz...lack both the killing power and ranged heals. So good Painboyz have to be the most kunnin of all. The fact people just quote the Apothecary's bolter in answer to this question says all you need to know about the state of things. Support is a distant second to many people in importance compared to killing, even when the question is specifically about support. And frankly I tell all my friends who turn to me for heals with Sorc or Warlock: "They're there to help you get in to cover without dying. It will not let you face tank even two guys with bolters." With the exception of the Apothecary med grenade, when it comes to actual support, the Apothecary is as effective as a Painboy. The difference is the Apothecary doesn't have to sit there in cover with this thumb up his ass at medium to long range. To be honest, I kind of despair for healing in this game sometimes. You can put one or two people back in a fight that wasn't a forgone conclusion the minute everyone saw each other, but what inevitably what happens is people start grouping up around a healer, and trying to pop shots off instead of pushing forward, and then some guy with a plasma cannon or other heavy weapon just ends up getting 3+ easy kills. The only maps where healers truly matter are fortress defense/Hold The Line defense. Then we get the chance to be the line between winning and losing. Fortress/Hold The Line attack or Supremacy though? Rarely does it feel like heals actually make a difference there. People just take so much damage from even a little concentrated fire that you can't save them. I've about given up trying to heal people who are actively being shot at, you can't even keep a downed guy alive under sustained fire from one enemy with the channeled spells. Healing grenades or stations won't do it. And if you run out there to stick them, chances are you will both get gunned down.
My take: Apoth: Obviously the top of the pack. A good Apoth is incredibly dangerous on top of healing allies. Obviously the Bolter adds much to it, but you can get it broken even considering just the Chainsword Apoth on a fair comparison. The Survival Vial is maybe too much. Lasts long, grants an insane 30% DR (Like having an extra 60 Toughness) that completely nullifies the Support "Armor reduction", and is basically just on all the time. Then there's the Greandes. A lot of people complain about the Beacon because it's hard to see, but honestly the one-shot one is probably even stronger and it doesn't get talked about a lot. You can chuck it on almost every encounter (Either to get yourself an insane regen or heal allies), heal at range, zombie yourself for a short time, pop it before a choke, etc. And even the Adrenaline Vial is OP when compared to others. Sorc/Warlock's "Force" buff is a 20% Damage increase, but the Apoths is 25%. Really, the only downside of Adrenaline is not taking the Survival vial. Warlock: An actually support-oriented support if played right. Buffing and Healing ranged people, and being able to deal with close-liners is an incredibly strong and useful role. Decent all around. Enhance's 20% DR makes up a bit for the "Support armor nerf", but not as strong as Apoth's does. It's main drawback IMO is that you really need two to get the pain train going (Enhance+Protect), but that requires the second warlock to, well, take protect. Extremely reliant on co-operation, but has probably the most potential on organized play. Sorcerer: Third place on basis that it can't get worse than the Painboy. It has nothing to enhance its survival unlike Apoth/Warlock, rendering them easy pickings. The only decent heal aside from the basic one is Tzeentc's boon of change, but that would require you to take Tzeentch's mark; which is both the worst mark you can get as a Sorcerer and actually unsynergistic with the heal itself. As for offensive spells, the most destructive, effective thing a sorc can do is casting Pistol. Maybe even Plasma Pistol if you really want to go all-out on your offensive magicks. Yeah... Sorc's offensive arsenal might as well not be there if nothing is going to outdo a simple, everyday bolt pistol. Lash of Slanesh is arguably good if you can get within Melee distance of an enemy and then shoot. Running at an enemy and then using a ranged attack confuses them, which briefly flabbergasts them and make them take increased damage as they ponder the stupidity of said maneuver. At least that's how I assume it works. Painboy: And the Painboy... which is objectively the worst when compared to his Peers. His main drawback is of course the lack of a main weapon, but he has for some reason second-rate everything compared to the Apoth. Shittier Vials, shittier beacon, no one-shot beacon, and no discernible redeeming quality other than having more HP (Which is arguably a good thing on a healer). The vial really get me because the Apoth's Adrenaline Vial is so much better than the Bloodlust Vial. And the Bloodlust vial is made obsolete by the Painboy's own other vial (The regen+ one). That said, being able to take the Regen+ Vial and having a naturally higher HP pool kinda offsets the "Support armor nerf" a little, something the Sorc cant do. So Painboys can be slightly harder to kill under heat, which is actually a useful thing to claim as a support. As for what to do to change the state of things, I would simply bump everyone in line: Sorc/Warlock self-only "Force Buff" needs to be at least on par or better than an Apoth's Self/Allies Adrenaline vial. Painboy needs access to better Vials. Either copy the ones from Apoth, or make new interesting ones. I once suggested making an "Adreanline Vial" with slightly less Damage increase but with additional Impact. This would solve the Painboy's knife-tier weapon problem, and it even works thematically (Orkz are strong!). Also maybe give them a one-shot healnade like the Apoths. Alternatively, just merge the Poison/Heals like it was back in beta. The healing tar used to both Poison enemies and heal allies. I don't know why they made the split, since it was both functionally unique and properly balanced. Making the Sicky slugga heal allies but poison enemies also sounds both situational useful (Ranged heals!) and extremely Orky (I'll shot you to make it stop hurting!).
The fact that psykers just sit back and heal also makes them quite boring to play. At least Appthecaries can shoot in between sticking people or throwing grenades.
Where the Painboyz's strength lies right now just usually causes me to go El Lobo Solo so I can find a JPA or GA and shame them. I really love Melee as the Painboy, I feel like people constantly underestimate him in combat. Not exactly traits you want in your healer though. I also feel like the Narthecium is a little OP considering the Apothecary gets muh bolter and a sidearm on top of it. By rights the Urty Syringe should be much stronger/faster/more impactful than it currently is to make up that deficit. The other healers get a whole weapon class upgrade. It's true it's a little boring but you have way better situational awareness than the rest of your team. That's why I die way less as a Warlock than any other class: I stay further back and the speed lets me run when everyone in front of me gets fragged. The danger with the Apothecary is you get so hung up on muh bolter that the healing basically turns in to supplemental experience, you're not actually playing your class for your team; at that point you're just a tact with shitter EHP and a heal nade to throw for yourself if you remember to before you're cut down in three shots. If you can be an All-Star and be head shotting people then whip around to drop some heals....Apothecary is pretty strong. But that's not how I tend to see them get played. And to be fair, you tend to be doing one or the other because you gotta run where people need heals. I guess my point is if you really want to maximize the Apothecary, you have to be playing twice as hard as anyone else because you can literally be useful anywhere.....but it's just way easier to muh bolter at the little red triangles.
